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Touring Motor Gliders Association (TMGA)

Owning a GROB 109A


xintersecty

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I am a CFIG who has not flown in years. I do keep in my CFI current for the day I do return to flying. I did have a flight recently last feb at Newcastle in the ASK-21. I could fly the tow and gliding, once I got to the landing I knew I was behind the curve and gave the stick back to John.  I have been trying to sell my extra house (house rich and cash poor) and once I do I am interested in getting back to flying. However glider clubs are still hour and a half drive. I will be hitting up Bermuda High Soaring to get current.

So here are the reasons why I would be interested in a GROB 109.  Currently there are two for sale, one in really good shape and within budget.  There is one in Cali that would be project plane.

  • Local Flying - I can fly to Bermuda High and teach and fly back in less time than driving.  I know by the time, I get to the airport, pull it out, fly it, I might only save a half hour. So let's be real, the purpose is to fly and use any excuse possible to fly it. 
  • Instruction -  As a CFI, I can put the GROB 109 as a teaching airplane and at least reduce the financial bleeding. 
  • Wifey - My wife solo powered years ago.  At Newcastle she really enjoyed the glider flying.  A motor glider will be far more cost efficient than owning a standard plane and her instructor will be free.  
  • Long Distance Trips - Her parents live in eastern PA about 650 miles.  The idea of using a plane for trips is very appealing. 
  • I am very mechanical (rebuilt engine parts etc) and I would like to do much of my own maintenance as possible?

OK here are the questions from the above goals.

Summer time density is between 3000 to 4000 feet, how is the plane in those conditions? I live in Columbia SC and it get's very hot and windy here.

  • How easy is the plane for a beginner flyer? I know they use them for primary training but really would like some honest opinions.
  • What are the vices of the plane?  
  • What is the baggage space on this plane?
  • How reliable is the engine?  
  • How is the cross wind performance? How does it handle windy conditions?
  • How much planning is needed before engaging the engine transitioning from soaring to motoring? 
  • What is parts availability? 
  • Flying cross country, what are the typical issues? Fuel? Comfort? Baggage? 

As a side note, I have seen it mentioned but I can't really find evidence of this.  Has anybody really developed a conversion kit for the Rotax 912 conversion kit? Personally the airframes have much life to give, I am not so sure about the motor and availability of parts. 

Thanks in advance!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It's a taildragger. Takeoff and landing can be a challenge for a beginner. It isn't a SGS 2-33. No big deal if experienced.

The flight manual says crosswind limit is 12 knots  (difficult at 8-10 on right side crosswind)

I need 700 feet ground roll solo at sea level standard temp. I suspect much longer run at altitude. Climb is about 400-500 fpm.

VW experience is preferred. Much different from local airplanes. Can be low cost if owner maintained.

 

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14 hours ago, bberson said:

VW experience is preferred. Much different from local airplanes. Can be low cost if owner maintained.

Thank you for replying.  One thing that I have done is owned at least two beetles and my grandfather owned a Volkswagen repair shop.  I know those engines, alas I was never very good with tuning the carb and with mags I don't have to fuss with a distributor ( I hope ). I prefer computer controlled EFI but that's me.  😄 

Considering there is 23 of type, I strongly suspect getting information is going to be hard.  

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Back to the question on long distance flying with the GROB 109A.  How is it?  What is baggage space is like?  I have read through the GROB 109 B flight manual. I have not found a 109 manual. The limit is 44 pounds.  that is more than plenty sufficient for two people packing light. I see the weight limit is 240 per seat and my own weight is 220 (maybe I really need to get serous about my diet 😄 ).  

Pictures of anybody's plane showing the baggage space will be appreciated. 

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  • 2 months later...

I have experience on both G109A and G109B. Both have good amount of space for luggage behind the seats, although there might be some CG and weight issues on full tanks. Refer to POH.

Grob is really fun to fly but might be a little bit tricky if your experiences limit to i.e. Cessnas. The first big difference is that it needs lot of rudder when turning. The inertia is quite high because of the long wings so flying it ball in the middle takes some time to get use to. Might be that if you are glider pilot it is easier. On left crosswind the takeoff is pretty easy to handle but on right crosswind you need practice as in the G109A the left rudder authority plus the spin direction of the propeller makes it hard to keep in the center line. With wide runway, no problem as you can fly an "arch" sideways but on narrow you have to be very aware of this charasteristic. G109B is better on this.

Approach is easy, even on crosswinds it feels like the plane is lowering its wing almost automatically from the wind direction. Slideslips are not very effective.

Ground handling is as any taildragger. On right crosswind you need to use toe brakes to keep it going straight. 

It goes up slowly and comes down fast. If you are going with G109A I suggest to get model with bigger engine to overcome i.e. the problems with wet wings.

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On 1/25/2021 at 7:57 AM, Grobie said:

I have experience on both G109A and G109B. Both have good amount of space for luggage behind the seats, although there might be some CG and weight issues on full tanks. Refer to POH.

Grob is really fun to fly but might be a little bit tricky if your experiences limit to i.e. Cessnas. The first big difference is that it needs lot of rudder when turning. The inertia is quite high because of the long wings so flying it ball in the middle takes some time to get use to. Might be that if you are glider pilot it is easier. On left crosswind the takeoff is pretty easy to handle but on right crosswind you need practice as in the G109A the left rudder authority plus the spin direction of the propeller makes it hard to keep in the center line. With wide runway, no problem as you can fly an "arch" sideways but on narrow you have to be very aware of this charasteristic. G109B is better on this.

Approach is easy, even on crosswinds it feels like the plane is lowering its wing almost automatically from the wind direction. Slideslips are not very effective.

Ground handling is as any taildragger. On right crosswind you need to use toe brakes to keep it going straight. 

It goes up slowly and comes down fast. If you are going with G109A I suggest to get model with bigger engine to overcome i.e. the problems with wet wings.

I really thank you for posting. As for long wings, I  have spent many hours in the GROB 103 and know the joys of cross control thermals. 😄  I have a dream of getting a motorglider but cost and money is really limiting choices.   I would love to see the grob 109 community start switching to the Rotax 912 however I have seen much public data on that. 

On a rope break for a glider, 300 feet is std minimum turn around, what would the GROB 109A be?

 

 

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