Tyler Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hello TMGA, Hi I'm Tyler Edwards and I am a senior Mechanical Engineering (concentration in Aerospace) student at the University of Dayton. I am in an aerospace design class, and we are tasked with designing our own airplanes from what we learn in class. From the lack of four seat motor gliders I have decided to design one. I have looked through this site and many others finding two seat motor gliders. I then graphed HP/W as a function of wing loading. Next I need to calculate vertical and horizontal tail volume coefficients. To do that I need the distance from the cg to the ac of both horizontal and vertical tails. I'll also need the areas of both tails. I have the wing areas, the average chords, and the spans. The heights of the vertical tails would also be helpful for other measurements made through plot digitizer. Here is a list of the planes I am researching.Distar Lambada[TABLE=width: 177][TR][TD=class: xl63, width: 177][TABLE=width: 177][TR][TD=class: xl65, width: 177][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Aeromet Super Ximango[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Europa XS Motorglider[TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Pipistrel Sinus, Virus, and the Taurus[TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Schleicher ASK 16[TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Diamond H36 Dimona[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Grob G109[TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Pheonix S-LSA[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Scheibe Rotax Falke[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Stemme S10[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Valentin Taifun[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Sonex[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE]I am also reasearching the Pipistrel Panthera. The Panthera is kind of what I want my final design to resemble. I understand these values might be impossible to find, but I would like all the information possible.If anyone has any suggestions please feel free to tell me. Thank You,Tyler Edwards[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hello TMGA, Hi I'm Tyler Edwards and I am a senior Mechanical Engineering (concentration in Aerospace) student at the University of Dayton. I am in an aerospace design class, and we are tasked with designing our own airplanes from what we learn in class. From the lack of four seat motor gliders I have decided to design one. I have looked through this site and many others finding two seat motor gliders. I then graphed HP/W as a function of wing loading. Next I need to calculate vertical and horizontal tail volume coefficients. To do that I need the distance from the cg to the ac of both horizontal and vertical tails. I'll also need the areas of both tails. I have the wing areas, the average chords, and the spans. The heights of the vertical tails would also be helpful for other measurements made through plot digitizer. Here is a list of the planes I am researching.Distar Lambada[TABLE=width: 177][TR][TD=class: xl63, width: 177][TABLE=width: 177][TR][TD=class: xl65, width: 177][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Aeromet Super Ximango[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Europa XS Motorglider[TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Pipistrel Sinus, Virus, and the Taurus[TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Schleicher ASK 16[TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Diamond H36 Dimona[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Grob G109[TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Pheonix S-LSA[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Scheibe Rotax Falke[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Stemme S10[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Valentin Taifun[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][TABLE=width: 177][TR] [TD=class: xl65, width: 177]Sonex[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE]I am also reasearching the Pipistrel Panthera. The Panthera is kind of what I want my final design to resemble. I understand these values might be impossible to find, but I would like all the information possible.If anyone has any suggestions please feel free to tell me. Thank You,Tyler Edwards[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Sorry about the formatting, didn't mean it to post that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Sorry about the formatting, didn't mean it to post that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sliwa Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hi TylerWhen I was doing a similar project when I was a student, I just got pictures and three-view diagrams of the appropriate aircraft and then scaled measurements against dimensions I knew (e.g., wingspan, fuselage length). You can assume to first order that the c.g. is at 25% MAC for the purpose of estimating the tail arm. This should give you horizontal and vertical tail coefficients to within 10%. Of course, this assumes the designs you compare against have the handling characteristics you desire. I suggest focusing on certified designs which usually implies more handling qualities testing in order to satisfy government requirements.Here is a Ximango 3-view: linkHere is a Grob G109 3-view: linkStemme S-10 3-view: linkGood luck and have fun! Brings back great memories. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sliwa Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hi TylerWhen I was doing a similar project when I was a student, I just got pictures and three-view diagrams of the appropriate aircraft and then scaled measurements against dimensions I knew (e.g., wingspan, fuselage length). You can assume to first order that the c.g. is at 25% MAC for the purpose of estimating the tail arm. This should give you horizontal and vertical tail coefficients to within 10%. Of course, this assumes the designs you compare against have the handling characteristics you desire. I suggest focusing on certified designs which usually implies more handling qualities testing in order to satisfy government requirements.Here is a Ximango 3-view: linkHere is a Grob G109 3-view: linkStemme S-10 3-view: linkGood luck and have fun! Brings back great memories. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermalseeker Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Aeromot has plans to develop a 4 and 6 seat cruiser from the Ximango. It is primarily intended for the Chinese market and is being developed in conjunction with the Chinese concern that is building the AMT-300 under license. My understanding is it is only intended for the Chinese market, though. They also developed and TC'd (in Brazil) a 2 seat aerobatic trainer from the Ximango called the "Guri". The Brazilian Air Force has 28 of them. I saw 7 civilian owned Guri's at a local flying club outside Porto Allegre when I visited the Aeromot factory in 2010. I'm told when it's fitted with an IO-360 it's a 180 knot, fully aerobatic aircraft. The factory test pilot said it's one of the nicest airplanes he's ever flown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermalseeker Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Aeromot has plans to develop a 4 and 6 seat cruiser from the Ximango. It is primarily intended for the Chinese market and is being developed in conjunction with the Chinese concern that is building the AMT-300 under license. My understanding is it is only intended for the Chinese market, though. They also developed and TC'd (in Brazil) a 2 seat aerobatic trainer from the Ximango called the "Guri". The Brazilian Air Force has 28 of them. I saw 7 civilian owned Guri's at a local flying club outside Porto Allegre when I visited the Aeromot factory in 2010. I'm told when it's fitted with an IO-360 it's a 180 knot, fully aerobatic aircraft. The factory test pilot said it's one of the nicest airplanes he's ever flown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Thanks for the help Steve. Glad I found this site. This may seem like a stupid question, but when you say certified do you mean by the FAA? Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Thanks for the help Steve. Glad I found this site. This may seem like a stupid question, but when you say certified do you mean by the FAA? Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
provoshane Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Tyler:Please let me know what you need from the Pipistrel Virus and I will see if I can get it for you. With regard to the Panthera, Pipistrel has kept a lot of the info under wraps until just recently, but since they have now shown the first flying prototype, perhaps it will be available. If you let me know what you need on this aircraft, I can ask around.Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
provoshane Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Tyler:Please let me know what you need from the Pipistrel Virus and I will see if I can get it for you. With regard to the Panthera, Pipistrel has kept a lot of the info under wraps until just recently, but since they have now shown the first flying prototype, perhaps it will be available. If you let me know what you need on this aircraft, I can ask around.Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sliwa Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 when you say certified do you mean by the FAA? FAA Certified or UK or Europe are also good standards. This means that they had to pass flight tests with certain minimum flying qualities tests. Sometimes designers need to go back and changed their tail design to improve the flying qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sliwa Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 when you say certified do you mean by the FAA? FAA Certified or UK or Europe are also good standards. This means that they had to pass flight tests with certain minimum flying qualities tests. Sometimes designers need to go back and changed their tail design to improve the flying qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 ShaneI found manuals for the taurus, virus, and sinus, but I could use information about the Panthera. If you could ask around that would be great.Thanks, Tyler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 ShaneI found manuals for the taurus, virus, and sinus, but I could use information about the Panthera. If you could ask around that would be great.Thanks, Tyler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.