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Touring Motor Gliders Association (TMGA)

Using an iPad mini for soaring stuff


Eric Greenwell

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I decided traveling with a tablet computer in a touring motorglider (Phoenix delivery in February) would be easier than lugging around my 6+ pound Windows laptop, so I took advantage of a good deal on an iPad mini. I thought it's wealth of aviation apps, including soaring apps like iGlide, and others was a plus.

It's a lovely device, visible in sunlight, but I've discovered Apple has built a rather wide moat around the castle that keeps out almost anything that doesn't say "Apple" on it. It's very frustrating, because these are things that are trivial with my Windows laptop:

- Getting my ClearNav IGC files off the SD card or USB stick and sending them to the OLC, or to anyone else.

- Viewing flight files

- Downloading an update to ClearNav, PowerFlarm, etc and put it on the SD/USB devices.

- Modifying my waypoint files (CUP format) and placing them on SC/USB

I'm hoping someone has easy answers for these operations, or I will have to consider options other than the iPad (or in addition to), which could include a smaller, lighter Windows laptop (or netbook) or Android tablet.

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I decided traveling with a tablet computer in a touring motorglider (Phoenix delivery in February) would be easier than lugging around my 6+ pound Windows laptop, so I took advantage of a good deal on an iPad mini. I thought it's wealth of aviation apps, including soaring apps like iGlide, and others was a plus.

It's a lovely device, visible in sunlight, but I've discovered Apple has built a rather wide moat around the castle that keeps out almost anything that doesn't say "Apple" on it. It's very frustrating, because these are things that are trivial with my Windows laptop:

- Getting my ClearNav IGC files off the SD card or USB stick and sending them to the OLC, or to anyone else.

- Viewing flight files

- Downloading an update to ClearNav, PowerFlarm, etc and put it on the SD/USB devices.

- Modifying my waypoint files (CUP format) and placing them on SC/USB

I'm hoping someone has easy answers for these operations, or I will have to consider options other than the iPad (or in addition to), which could include a smaller, lighter Windows laptop (or netbook) or Android tablet.

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Eric

I can't answer your specific questions regarding downloading information on the IPad, but one caution when using either the IPad or IPhone as a navigational tool in flight is that when the cockpit temps get into the mid-90's, the box has the annoying habit of going to sleep, awakening only when it's cooler. This can be disconcerting when navigating. If anyone knows of a shade for the IPad, please advise.

I've gone to a Garman 296, bought used. It never goes down and gives me the necessary navigatonal information for my power X-C flying. It's not nearly as dramatic as the new GA software which I have on my IPad - APOA's FlyQ, and WingX - but the Garman has never failed me. You can get newer and better Garman's but I don't need that capability.

I'm looking forward to seeing you and your much-awaited new Phoenix at the Cottonwood/Sedona Fly-In.

Richard

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Eric

I can't answer your specific questions regarding downloading information on the IPad, but one caution when using either the IPad or IPhone as a navigational tool in flight is that when the cockpit temps get into the mid-90's, the box has the annoying habit of going to sleep, awakening only when it's cooler. This can be disconcerting when navigating. If anyone knows of a shade for the IPad, please advise.

I've gone to a Garman 296, bought used. It never goes down and gives me the necessary navigatonal information for my power X-C flying. It's not nearly as dramatic as the new GA software which I have on my IPad - APOA's FlyQ, and WingX - but the Garman has never failed me. You can get newer and better Garman's but I don't need that capability.

I'm looking forward to seeing you and your much-awaited new Phoenix at the Cottonwood/Sedona Fly-In.

Richard

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when using either the IPad or IPhone as a navigational tool in flight is that when the cockpit temps get into the mid-90's, the box has the annoying habit of going to sleep, awakening only when it's cooler. This can be disconcerting when navigating. If anyone knows of a shade for the IPad, please advise.

...

I've heard that, but I don't expect it to be a problem: the iPad will be used in flight primarily as a supplement for the Dynon Skyview "glass panel", and secondarily as a backup for Skyview, in the unlikely event the Skyview loses it's navigational ability. Even then, I'd still have the ClearNav flight computer for navigation. The dealer, Jim Lee in Florida, uses an iPad mini in his Phoenix, including his visit to Minden for this year's Fly-in, and intends to use it as his soaring computer with iGlide in his next Phoenix, coupled with a Butterfly vario using wif-fi (an option on the Butterfly). So, good support for the concept from Jim.

The only time I have had cockpit temperatures in the 90s is on the ground, and usually not even then. At least, that's been my experience with my single seat gliders. Perhaps the Phoenix will be different, but none of the owners have complained about high cockpit temperatures.

Do you use an iPad in the cockpit? How did you choose FlyQ and WingX over Foreflight and Garmin Pilot? I'm leaning towards Foreflight, as it seems very well received, but I've not used any of them.

Edited by Eric Greenwell
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when using either the IPad or IPhone as a navigational tool in flight is that when the cockpit temps get into the mid-90's, the box has the annoying habit of going to sleep, awakening only when it's cooler. This can be disconcerting when navigating. If anyone knows of a shade for the IPad, please advise.

...

I've heard that, but I don't expect it to be a problem: the iPad will be used in flight primarily as a supplement for the Dynon Skyview "glass panel", and secondarily as a backup for Skyview, in the unlikely event the Skyview loses it's navigational ability. Even then, I'd still have the ClearNav flight computer for navigation. The dealer, Jim Lee in Florida, uses an iPad mini in his Phoenix, including his visit to Minden for this year's Fly-in, and intends to use it as his soaring computer with iGlide in his next Phoenix, coupled with a Butterfly vario using wif-fi (an option on the Butterfly). So, good support for the concept from Jim.

The only time I have had cockpit temperatures in the 90s is on the ground, and usually not even then. At least, that's been my experience with my single seat gliders. Perhaps the Phoenix will be different, but none of the owners have complained about high cockpit temperatures.

Do you use an iPad in the cockpit? How did you choose FlyQ and WingX over Foreflight and Garmin Pilot? I'm leaning towards Foreflight, as it seems very well received, but I've not used any of them.

Edited by Eric Greenwell
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In my TBM I am a heavy user of my iPad for instrument flying. I don't carry any charts any more since my panel is backed up by my iPad. I find the iPad helpful with various flight planning, IFR operations (looking at arrivals and departures), and loading frequencies on the ground while waiting for my avionics to initialize. All of these could be done with my panel but accomplished faster with a separate iPad. I am long time user of standard iPad in the cockpit and am experimenting with iPad mini.

In my Ximango I have a Dynon and then GPSMap 696 wired into the panel. One nice thing about this approach is that is automatically load the frequencies from the airport data in the 696 to my Garmin radios. It has most of the features I need for navigation. I carry my iPad as back-up but really haven't used it.

I started with Foreflight in the early days and it has continued to be upgraded almost faster than I can learn to use the new capabilities. I used to file all my flight plans with FlightPlan.com, but now am almost totally on Foreflight. I have heard good things about the other apps but I would say that Foreflight usually wins 4 out 5 reviews as they keep trying to leapfrog each other with new capabilities. As a result, I have had no reason to switch. I also use Foreflight Checklist.

I am a little frustrated that most of the avionics and soaring devices require PC type support. I did get a Fujitsu Tablet Computer for doing upgrades but now Garmin and Jepp offer native Mac applications. So now I use my MacBook Air, which has a built in SD card reader. I also have used Parallels on the Mac to good effect for some of the data transfers. I have not messed much with OLC or my soaring computer using the Mac interface, but I am confident I could do it in a MacBook Air with Parallels.

Edited by Webmaster
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In my TBM I am a heavy user of my iPad for instrument flying. I don't carry any charts any more since my panel is backed up by my iPad. I find the iPad helpful with various flight planning, IFR operations (looking at arrivals and departures), and loading frequencies on the ground while waiting for my avionics to initialize. All of these could be done with my panel but accomplished faster with a separate iPad. I am long time user of standard iPad in the cockpit and am experimenting with iPad mini.

In my Ximango I have a Dynon and then GPSMap 696 wired into the panel. One nice thing about this approach is that is automatically load the frequencies from the airport data in the 696 to my Garmin radios. It has most of the features I need for navigation. I carry my iPad as back-up but really haven't used it.

I started with Foreflight in the early days and it has continued to be upgraded almost faster than I can learn to use the new capabilities. I used to file all my flight plans with FlightPlan.com, but now am almost totally on Foreflight. I have heard good things about the other apps but I would say that Foreflight usually wins 4 out 5 reviews as they keep trying to leapfrog each other with new capabilities. As a result, I have had no reason to switch. I also use Foreflight Checklist.

I am a little frustrated that most of the avionics and soaring devices require PC type support. I did get a Fujitsu Tablet Computer for doing upgrades but now Garmin and Jepp offer native Mac applications. So now I use my MacBook Air, which has a built in SD card reader. I also have used Parallels on the Mac to good effect for some of the data transfers. I have not messed much with OLC or my soaring computer using the Mac interface, but I am confident I could do it in a MacBook Air with Parallels.

Edited by Webmaster
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I am a little frustrated that most of the avionics and soaring devices require PC type support. I did get a Fujitsu Tablet Computer for doing upgrades but now Garmin and Jepp offer native Mac applications. So now I use my MacBook Air, which has a built in SD card reader. I also have used Parallels on the Mac to good effect for some of the data transfers. I have not messed much with OLC or my soaring computer using the Mac interface, but I am confident I could do it in a MacBook Air with Parallels.

Other Mac users have told me same thing: the Mac can run the PC software well, but the iPad can't. I'd assumed the iPad was sort of a "Mac Lite", but now realize it differs significantly from not just Windows, but also the Mac. My present plan is to stick with the iPad until I return home with the Phoenix, and hope I have enough experience with it, and more knowledge of the Apple/Android tablet world, to make an informed decision.

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I am a little frustrated that most of the avionics and soaring devices require PC type support. I did get a Fujitsu Tablet Computer for doing upgrades but now Garmin and Jepp offer native Mac applications. So now I use my MacBook Air, which has a built in SD card reader. I also have used Parallels on the Mac to good effect for some of the data transfers. I have not messed much with OLC or my soaring computer using the Mac interface, but I am confident I could do it in a MacBook Air with Parallels.

Other Mac users have told me same thing: the Mac can run the PC software well, but the iPad can't. I'd assumed the iPad was sort of a "Mac Lite", but now realize it differs significantly from not just Windows, but also the Mac. My present plan is to stick with the iPad until I return home with the Phoenix, and hope I have enough experience with it, and more knowledge of the Apple/Android tablet world, to make an informed decision.

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iPad is just a big iPhone and not a scaled down computer. It runs iOS.

OSX runs on its Mac computers. The smallest lightest computer in their lineup is a MacBook Air (MBA) and is really only a bit bigger and heavier than the old iPads. I love my MBA and take it everywhere. It doesn't run the iPhone/iPad apps like Foreflight. Plus the keyboard clamshell arrangement would be bulky in the cockpit. So it's not ideal for cockpit use, but is a great support tool to stick in the luggage.

What did you decide for flight apps? Foreflight or WingX? Some people get auxiliary GPS for the iPad BTW. BadElf is an example.

Another prime use of the iPad in the cockpit is that passengers can use it to study places on the ground and track progress. It helps to increase the enjoyment of those riding along.

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iPad is just a big iPhone and not a scaled down computer. It runs iOS.

OSX runs on its Mac computers. The smallest lightest computer in their lineup is a MacBook Air (MBA) and is really only a bit bigger and heavier than the old iPads. I love my MBA and take it everywhere. It doesn't run the iPhone/iPad apps like Foreflight. Plus the keyboard clamshell arrangement would be bulky in the cockpit. So it's not ideal for cockpit use, but is a great support tool to stick in the luggage.

What did you decide for flight apps? Foreflight or WingX? Some people get auxiliary GPS for the iPad BTW. BadElf is an example.

Another prime use of the iPad in the cockpit is that passengers can use it to study places on the ground and track progress. It helps to increase the enjoyment of those riding along.

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Foreflight is the one mentioned the most by far, so I'll try that first. I haven't looked at WingX - does it have some features that set it apart from Foreflight, and make it worth the extra $25?

My iPad has a GPS in it which other dealer says works fine in the Phoenix, so I won't get an external unit.

Another prime use of the iPad in the cockpit is that passengers can use it to study places on the ground and track progress. It helps to increase the enjoyment of those riding along.

Good point. I'll remember that.

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Foreflight is the one mentioned the most by far, so I'll try that first. I haven't looked at WingX - does it have some features that set it apart from Foreflight, and make it worth the extra $25?

My iPad has a GPS in it which other dealer says works fine in the Phoenix, so I won't get an external unit.

Another prime use of the iPad in the cockpit is that passengers can use it to study places on the ground and track progress. It helps to increase the enjoyment of those riding along.

Good point. I'll remember that.

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The external GPS is typically on the dashboard, always on and always locked on the satellites. I find that if I put my iPad down that sometimes it will take up to 10 minutes for the built-in GPS to converge and to start showing my position with sufficient accurate that Foreflight will display it. So the value of the external GPS is dependent upon the iPad usage pattern and where it is stored when not in use.

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The external GPS is typically on the dashboard, always on and always locked on the satellites. I find that if I put my iPad down that sometimes it will take up to 10 minutes for the built-in GPS to converge and to start showing my position with sufficient accurate that Foreflight will display it. So the value of the external GPS is dependent upon the iPad usage pattern and where it is stored when not in use.

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I am about to head down the same path (iPad mini) mainly motivated by OzRunways which is great in Australia. I fly a Dimona touring motorglider out of a major controlled airspace airport so ATC, planning and navigation is a requirement more than pure gliding software. But I have been using XCsoar on a Nexus 7 which works fine.

I am not sure it covers everything but I think Dropbox can cover most of your file transfer needs. A Google Drive would also probably work - but many of the iPad apps support Dropbox direct. It has the secondary benefit of a safe 'in the cloud' backup ...

Of course you need an internet connection ... but that is typically not an issue.

As an aside - I see some people are using a Kobo eBook reader with its fantastic e-ink screen which is great for sunlight viewing and running XCsoar on it. But it does take some hacking to add a GPS ...

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I am about to head down the same path (iPad mini) mainly motivated by OzRunways which is great in Australia. I fly a Dimona touring motorglider out of a major controlled airspace airport so ATC, planning and navigation is a requirement more than pure gliding software. But I have been using XCsoar on a Nexus 7 which works fine.

I am not sure it covers everything but I think Dropbox can cover most of your file transfer needs. A Google Drive would also probably work - but many of the iPad apps support Dropbox direct. It has the secondary benefit of a safe 'in the cloud' backup ...

Of course you need an internet connection ... but that is typically not an issue.

As an aside - I see some people are using a Kobo eBook reader with its fantastic e-ink screen which is great for sunlight viewing and running XCsoar on it. But it does take some hacking to add a GPS ...

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The iPad is fine, mostly, once you have the document "in the cloud" or at least wireless (wifi or Bluetooth), then you can move it around without much hinderance. The problem I've run into is transferring files with devices that aren't connected, but rely on USB sticks or SD for the transfers, such as my ClearNav flight computer, PowerFlarm, 302 vario, and soon, the Dynon SkyView "glass panel" that will be in the Phoenix.

There are cable/wifi adapters for the SD/USB drives, but Mr. iPad is too snooty to accept much of anything besides images. Even with files already on the Internet, the Safari browser is picky about transferring files not known to it, like IGC files and executable files for software and firmwar updates. I'm sure there are ways around all this, and I'm hoping one of the many people working on it will come up with an easy way to support our "legacy" equipment. New equipment seems to be offering wireless connections, which at least avoids the hardware incompatibility.

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The iPad is fine, mostly, once you have the document "in the cloud" or at least wireless (wifi or Bluetooth), then you can move it around without much hinderance. The problem I've run into is transferring files with devices that aren't connected, but rely on USB sticks or SD for the transfers, such as my ClearNav flight computer, PowerFlarm, 302 vario, and soon, the Dynon SkyView "glass panel" that will be in the Phoenix.

There are cable/wifi adapters for the SD/USB drives, but Mr. iPad is too snooty to accept much of anything besides images. Even with files already on the Internet, the Safari browser is picky about transferring files not known to it, like IGC files and executable files for software and firmwar updates. I'm sure there are ways around all this, and I'm hoping one of the many people working on it will come up with an easy way to support our "legacy" equipment. New equipment seems to be offering wireless connections, which at least avoids the hardware incompatibility.

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