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Touring Motor Gliders Association (TMGA)

ATC - Say Type Aircraft


Randy Roth

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When requesting flight following, what do most Phoenix pilots say when ATC queries, "say type aircraft"?

I have replied ... experimental HXB, Phoenix motor glider, light sport motor glider and just experimental.

I wonder .... what do the majority of Phoenix pilots reply? What is correct according to ATC?

And, how do we get an, "official aircraft type designation".

Your thoughts please.:rolleyes:

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If I'm flying long wing I announce as "motorglider"...short wing as "Light Sport". No apparent problems with this approach.

Dave Glosser

If I'm landing engine-off, I announce as "glider", so the other pilots know I need to land, and don't have many options.

If I'm landing with the engine on, I'll announce as "light sport", so they will know I'm an airplane and can react accordingly. I'm not sure "motorglider" would be understood by most pilots, and they might be confused about the actions they should take.

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Hi All, This is a question for the group ... in response to ATC asking, "say type aircraft" for flight following purposes ONLY, ATC needs to input a, "type" when assigning you a squawk code, destination, routing, etc. when requesting flight following. What do most of you say? With no known official, "type" designator, I have used.... experimental HXB, Phoenix motor glider, Phoenix, experimental motor glider, or experimental. So .... what do most of you reply when asked by ATC, "say type aircraft"? AND, how do we get an official, "type", recognized by ATC? (Some types known to ATC would be ... Sklyane = 172, Stemme = S10S, Airbus 320 = A320, Douglas DC-9 = DC9 etc.)

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Good point about the engine-off landing condition. It hadn't occurred to me since I always use engine at public use airports, such as 39N where I hangar mine. I reserve engine off landings to the gliderport where I also fly but don't keep the plane (3PA2).

Dave Glosser

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KRLD is general use public airport, not very busy, and we've flown gliders from it for over 50 years. We aren't as active as we use to be, and we all self-launch now, but most local pilots know they don't have to freak out when they hear a glider announce "10 miles out, inbound for landing" :)

The self-launching sailplanes, which are visually obviously gliders (unlike at TMG), will usually announce "Motorglider xyz entering runway 19 for immediate takeoff ...". In the Phoenix, I'll use "Light Sport 42EJ entering ...", because it looks more like an airplane than what other pilots think a glider looks like.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The correct current ATC designation is HXB as Randy indicated. This is a catch-all designation which groups all aircraft using this designation as a lightweight experimental aircraft which cruises between 100 and 200kts. It is used on flight plans and when requesting flight following or talking to ATC or an Approach Control for Class B or C airports, and sometimes (rarely) to the tower at a Class D, for airport landing instructions. The purpose of giving ATC HXB is so that they know the speed of the aircraft when it comes to alerting for traffic, and sequencing planes into controlled airports when handed off to approach or the tower.

We have requested an ICAO Phoenix designation 3 times in 3 years and do not have one yet. When (if?) a Phoenix designation is assigned to us I will let everyone know. In the meantime, it makes no difference to the controllers whether we are an HXB or a PHX (which is already taken, for some kind of rare airplane), they still would know how to handle us in either case and it wouldn't change anything for them. Matter of fact, it would probably just slow down their process as they try to figure out what kind of oddball airplane they are dealing with, rather than the known quantity of slow speed experimental. The only real difference is to us, for the "cool factor" of having our own designation. After I give the HXB designation, ATC calls me "Experimental". I just go with that instead of trying to spend time educating a controller who is really not interested.

When landing at an uncontrolled airport, announcing "glider" if engine off and "motorglider" or "light sport" if engine on is a good idea. We announce "Cessna 4FT on downwind" or "Piper 99Q turning base" so that other aircraft in the pattern know which type of aircraft to look for. If we spot a Piper on downwind, then we know that there is still an unseen Cessna there too. "Motorglider" sets us apart from other high wing and low wing light sport aircraft, so that is what I use.

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I am curious why we would use HXB instead of HXA indicating a cruise speed up to 100 knots? Also, does the designation we say verbally need to match the aircraft type that the transponder is set to?

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  • 4 months later...

Hi Phoenix Fans -

Since my training in my new Phoenix with Jim Lee in Melbourne nearly three years ago, I've been successfully using "HXB" for aircraft type for the ATC computer for flight following. The controllers had to input something, and HXB has satisfied that need until now. Yesterday inflight, one of our SOCAL (Southern California Air Traffic Control) approach controllers told me that they "no longer use those codes". He says they now use aircraft type. Hmmmmm. We know that that there are not enough Phoenix aircraft around for them to generally input "Phoenix" into the computer and have that very useful to them.

Today, I followed up with a phone call to the SOCAL Air Traffic Management desk. The helpful FAA controller said "Well, Yes, that's true. We are migrating away from that terminolgy". He suggested that instead of using HXB, we tell them "Light Sport". I think "motorglider"would work well too, but my preference is to keep it as simple as possible for the controllers and not complicate things by mentioning anything with the word "glider" in it.

The controller told me that if we say we are Light Sport, the controller will probably type LTSP into the computer, and that will satisfy their needs. The Air Traffic Manager guy told me that HXB was "primarily needed for managing IFR traffic for approach spacing".

So unless something changes, (like a specific Phoenix Code), when the controllers ask me for aircraft type, I'll just tell them I'm a Light Sport.

Russ Owens, Phoenix Ser. # 17

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