New Owner - Engine Question

Abstract:    I suddenly lost power at 700 feet climbing on downwind (6 weeks and 20 hours ago). I throttled back immediately, then tested the throttle, and fine, no problems afterwards.

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Subject: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "jmak88" jmaki@yahoo.com
Date: 8/25/08 1:13 AM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

Hello Taifun Owners.

My name is Jeff Maki, and I recently purchased Taifun 1066 N39MA from John Gill in Denver (3 mo ago). It now resides in Seattle.

I have the Limbach 2400, and am having an interesting problem I wondered if anyone has experienced. I have had a sudden but brief
severe power loss on two occasions. The first was during a pattern, where I suddenly lost power at 700 feet climbing on downwind (6 weeks and 20 hours ago). I throttled back immediately, then tested the throttle, and fine, no problems afterwards. Other mechanics/pilots told me probably water in my fuel. Put about 20 more hours on it no problem. Then Sat after my normal runup, got on the runway, and advanced the throttle. Almost immediately, same thing, sudden severe loss of power. I was only up to about 20 mph, so cut the throttle and pulled off. Went to the runup area. Did an extensive runup - perfectly normal. Engine as smooth as could be. Then flew for 2.5 hours and it was perfect. On both occasions I checked the sumps and had no water.

Carb icing? (80 degrees this past time). Intermittent magnito/ignition problem (Slick magneto, ~ 600 hours)? I looked at plugs - they all seem ok, but will replace. I think based on time the magneto needs to be rebuilt anyway, and I will do so. But it is pretty disconcerting to have this occasional "problem". So far it has hit at non-problematic times, but you never know. I am looking for anybody with similar experiences who may have a clue as to the problem. Thank you very much, and glad to join the group.

Jeff Maki

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Subject: Re: [Taifun17E] Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: Fly10yy@yahoo.com
8/25/08 5:34 AM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

LOOK FOR A CRACK IN A CYLINDER HEAD AROUND A VALVE SEAT. I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM,
YOU NEED A SCOPE TO TO LOOK THROUGH THE SPARK OPENING. TOM

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Subject: Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "patandspike" johncallahan@yahoo.com
Date: 8/25/08 6:37 AM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

Hello Jeff

I have experienced carb ice with my L2400 at 25 centigrade and that's close to 80F. It only needs about 60% humidity and partial throttle at that temp and you've got it. With those carbies the ice forms on the fuel metering needle so you need to go for full throttle. Some of the Slick magnetos are non repairable only being made for the TBO of the engine. Also you must set the "E gap" not the points gap. What sort of spark plugs are you using ? Seattle, what a beautiful place to fly.

John

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Subject: Re: [Taifun17E] New Owner - Engine Question
From: Bob Gurr <gurrini@yahoo.com>
Date: 8/25/08 7:07 AM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

Magneto.

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From: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jmak88
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:59 AM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Taifun17E] Re: New Owner - Engine Question

Both occurrences were at full throttle - do you think it could be ice in that case? If so, what do you do?

We will pull the mag and rebuild or replace regardless. Plugs are the Bosch WB 4 A, and per my log, they haven't been replaced in several hundred hours (although look good to the eye). As soon as I can find them (any ideas where?), I will replace.

Yes, when it is clear here, flying is breathtaking! Right now just trying to get the kinks out of the ship and get really comfortable with it. Experiences like this do not add to my comfort (although it is a joy to fly in every other regard).

Jeff

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Subject: RE: [Taifun17E] Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "Fred Bonar" fbonar@yahoo.com
Date: 8/25/08 9:55 AM
To: <Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com>

Jeff

Recently acquired N17NT and operate in the Southern Cal Hi Desert and LA Basin. Two Taifuns I know of have belly landed due to the electric fuel pump failure on take-off, one was mine and am thinking of upgrading it again, have really incorporated checking both the manual and electric in my check lists. In 10 years NT has been flown only 15 hours so am working out the kinks too, but other than heat only minor.

I put an oiler cooler, fan and NACA duct on to reduce oil temp and has done well but still am going to a cooler with higher heat dissipation, want to be able to carry two people and full fuel at 105 degree and stay in the green on climb out. Also had a tuned exaust installed which increased the 80 hp to 85+ to roughly the L2400, mine is a L2000.

Raised in eastern Washington, WSU engineering grad.

Fred

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Subject: Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "patandspike" johncallahan@yahoo.com
Date: 8/25/08 7:08 PM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

The Bosch WB4a plugs were superseded in July 1996 and Limbach then recomended Eyquem A 755 plugs. In June 2006 the Eyquem A 755 plug production finished. Limbach now supply a new ignition harness so you can use a more conventional plug.
Have you checked the filter in the mechanical fuel pump ? By the way mogas is much more susceptible to icing than avgas, especially if there is any ethanol in it.

Regards, John

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Subject: Re: [Taifun17E] Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: jmaki jmaki@yahoo.com
Date: 8/25/08 11:28 PM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

Thanks, I will look into the new harness. I emailed Limbach.

Is it straight-forward to replace/clean the filter in the mechanical pump? I am getting the idea that parts are extremely hard to come by.

Jeff

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Subject: Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "patandspike" johncallahan@yahoo.com
Date: 8/26/08 4:12 AM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

The filter is just a mesh filter under the cap on the pump. From memory an 8mm stud or screws on the newer pumps. I don't have any
problem sourcing parts for limbach. Have just uploaded some files applicable to the current discussions.

John

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Subject: Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "cloudsipper" amelendy@yahoo.com
Date: 8/26/08 5:35 AM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

Jeff, Perhaps there is enough interest to put together a group buy from Limbach. Clearly the freight could be reduced and there may be a possibility to negotiate terms. I, personally would be interested in the new harness as well, I have also previously expressed an interest in a spares kit (alternator belt, plugs, etc). Group???

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Subject: Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "varadseattle" jmaki@yahoo.com
Date: 8/26/08 4:13 PM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

Thanks,

I'll add this to my list of things to check. But why would you get an engine failure if only
the electrical fuel pump failed? Have you found a source for the KL25 fuel filter?

Jeff

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Subject: RE: [Taifun17E] Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "Fred Bonar" fbonar@yahoo.com
Date: 8/26/08 4:19 PM
To: <Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com>

Look at how high the manual pump is above the fuel tanks and climbing at 3400 rpm makes it worse, both power and elevation difference. If the electric fails the manual apparently does not have sufficient suction head to supply the engine therefore an electric is needed/required. The flight manual has anticipated this and the pump is on at take off and then off at altitude. I shut off sometime after reducing power to 3000 rpm. What I do not know is if the manual fails on take off will the electric fully compensate, I suspect so, but no test for that. In either case when I start I engage the electric to make sure I hear it, start with both, then during taxi shut down the electric to confirm the manual, then as part of the run up check restart the electric, that confirms that both are functioning at least at pre take off. A Facet pump was installed instead of the APG which came on Taifuns, they run continuously as there is a bypass back to the tank. Aircraft Spruce has two models, the lower was installed but I may upgrade to the better at annual, as it will compensates for fuel lock and I do fly in temperature. Fortunately both Taifuns were landed gear up which it is per the flight manual and survived. There are 26 Taifuns in the US only 21 active by my count, that makes 10% with the problem that are known, what happened to the other 5, electric fuel pump? I may put a pressure gage after the electric pump, if I have positive pressure, whatever that may be great, if negative and suction then the electric is not functioning properly even if it auditably sounds like it is running.

No source for the fuel filter, haven’t looked yet but will have to at some point.

Fred

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Subject: Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "jmak88" jmaki@yahoo.com
Date: 8/30/08 12:23 AM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

I checked with Limbach regarding plugs and a new harness. They replied that the sparkplugs are Order-No: 170123103 (20 Euro each) and the harness is Order-No. 170123022 at 158 Euro. Pretty pricey, esp when converted to $. Perhaps we could get a bulk discount. I tried to get them to give me a part # for the plugs to see if they are available locally, but they didn't.

Now this wiring harness is non-shielded. Does anybody have any experience with using this setup? I am told there may be radio interference.

Jeff Maki
N39MA

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Subject: Re: New Owner - Engine Question
From: "jmak88" jmaki@yahoo.com
Date: 8/30/08 12:31 AM
To: Taifun17E@yahoogroups.com

I'd like to service this filter. Is this mesh cleanable, or do I need a new one? Does it require a new gasket, and if so do you know where to find one?

Thanks,

Jeff Maki
N39MA