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Touring Motor Gliders Association (TMGA)

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  1. Last week
  2. In fact, the price is high, the repair costs are too high. I have the TMG H 36 Dimona, it's a great tourist plane .. but also great for gliding. There is one for sale https://www.segelflug.de/osclass/index.php?page=item&id=58839
  3. Doug Levy

    Parachute rocket replacement

    Here is the text from them: Your system was manufactured in April, 2010, and the initial repack of our canopy was due in April, 2016. . When the canopy was repacked in December, 2017, that established the next repack due date of December of 2023 (6 years from the first repack certification in December of 2017). The ultimate expiration date of the canopy is April, 2028, at which time the system must be replaced. According to this the parachute, rocket and all parts must be replaced after 18 years.
  4. Eric Greenwell

    Parachute rocket replacement

    Dennis said the entire system would need to be replaced in 6 years. Did he mean to include the just replaced rocket? Or can that stay with glider for 12 years?
  5. Rotozuk

    Are TMGs a cheaper entry point into flying?

    They were hoping for $27K for the one photo'd above. Think a good current plane is $40k, so think the $27k price was too high as I see a lot of work and details it will need to get back into annual. It will also need to be trailered from its current location in rural GA. It does have a zero time prop, fresh rebuild.
  6. Doug Levy

    Parachute rocket replacement

    This plane was built in 2010. The rocket was 12 years old. The parachute was repacked a couple of years ago.
  7. Hello Using the TMG is great and very cheap to use. What is the price for a Taifun 17E, what is the engine?....
  8. Witaj head Limbach L2000 EB Mam pytanie aby wykonać idealnie identyczną kopię głowicy Limbach L2000 EB, jakiego producenta najlepiej zastosować głowicę? Oczywiście ważne jest również stosowanie odpowiedniej jakości zaworów, prowadnic zaworów i gniazd zaworów. Czy ktoś ma taką wiedzę i może się podzielić...
  9. Eric Greenwell

    Parachute rocket replacement

    Did you also have the parachute repacked at the same time? I'm disappointed to hear the 6 year old rocket has to be replaced, in addition to the 18 year old parachute.
  10. I've tackled the task of replacing the parachute rocket on U15/02 built in 2010. I worked with Magnum Parachute of DeLand Florida. After emails and photos Dennis sent me the rocket in a perforated steel container that was secured with steel banding. To say I was a little concerned is an under statement. After understanding the mechanism I was less worried as it seems quite safe. With the rocket are a couple of manuals with many pictures. I had to remove the parachute to access the screws that hold the white rocket housing tube. I also removed the tee handle from under the instrument panel to be sure to have slack in the cable. Make sure the tee handle is locked so that it can't be pulled. The small cables from rocket to the parachute pack get replaced too. There is tubing that surrounds the rocket in the housing that was not that easy to replace. After putting it all back together I was told I need to replace the cable and the bridle that goes around the spars. So I have to remove the parachute and rocket again to replace the cable and bridle. Hopefully others can do this all at the same time, once. I shipped the old rocket to Magnum in the container. I couldn't find anyone with steel banding equipment so it was agreed that I used safety wire in 6 places on the container. The tee handle cable is referred as the activation line. I measured it at 3 meters long. The bridle in my plane is marked as 1.7 meters and that is the measurement I got. The total cost has been $1550. I had to sign for the Fedex delivery and getting to return requires coordination with a Fedex pickup. Dennis said the entire system will need to be replaced in another 6 years, an 18 year system life.
  11. Earlier
  12. Steve Sliwa

    Are TMGs a cheaper entry point into flying?

    I can't disagree with the advice above. However, let me just add the instructor into the equation. Having ready access to an instructor that has the availability to support your availability model is critical. Most people will tell you that the minimum flight and instructor hour costs can be achieved by completing your ratings in near minimal time (weeks rather than months). As it stretches out over time the number of flight hours required goes up. Taking an extra 10 to 30 hours sort of blows any cost optimization analysis. Ownership is a 'feel good' objective and unless heading to the airlines it will not be the cheapest method of getting to any reasonable finish line. Clubs are the best way to make progress in the early days of being a pilot. It also helps to reinforce your flying model and if ownership will factor into it. What you want for training may well be different than what you want after achieving your certificates. Your friend knew he had to build up time for the airlines. Most of us have other missions in mind. Finally, I caution anyone going into flight to be careful about being pre-occupied with minimizing cost. I would rather have that person be pre-occupied with safety first followed by fun, utility and other related parameters. I hope it comes together for you.
  13. TeriStar

    Are TMGs a cheaper entry point into flying?

    Everyone here has given you accurate and good advice. Find (or create) a good flying club and you can't beat the cost as an individual just wanting to train or accumulate hours. Networking in a club pays big dividends to setting up your future aircraft ownership. Individual aircraft ownership should come after you have a license and have zeroed in on type of flying you want to do. After I had my PPL SEL and no access to rentals, I bought a $6000 experimental Baby Ace and built tail wheel time until I could afford more (Warm months only!). Today I partner in a Phoenix Motorglider but don't recommend that purchase expense for most people. The more afforable TMGs are good flyers but poor climbers and the Limbach motors are not easy to find knowledgeable repair for, so only buy if you know of such experts. BTW: I too fly RC gliders and have done some homebuilt aircraft building. Due to limited time and money, I always had to choose just one: build or fly. I wish I would have spent more time flying than building, but that is just my hind sight. Good luck with your adventure!
  14. Rotozuk

    Are TMGs a cheaper entry point into flying?

    Thank you very much! I was discovering that I could not find much info about the Taifun maintenance and parts availability in the english language. If anyone is interested in a really rough Taifun, it is listed on Barnstormers along with 2 other TMGs in similar condition.
  15. When I was looking in late 2019, I tried multiple times to reach the USA distributor for the Phoenix, without success. XimangoUSA, by contrast, at least still exists which is partly why I ended up with one. Its wings fold to 33 feet, but folding is not easy for my old body of great weakness. The biggest downside, IMO, is, being largely FRP and not CF, high empty weight. My single ride in an H36 (with a 912) convinced me that it works quite well as an airplane, but less so as a glider. The Ximango, OTOH, feels like a Grob G-103. It has an SSA handicap however, of 1.4 - similar to an ASK-13. Max L/D is somewhat better, but wing loading is higher and neither penetrate well. Photography as you describe is impossible; not just because of the little vent sliders, but because their placement is awkward. The Pipistrel Sinus is far better for that. The Sinus's light weight makes it a good performer as an airplane, for sure. Spoiler handle on the roof, tri-gear on most, and high wing would seem to make it an awkward-feeling glider, though I haven't yet flown one. Admittedly though, the high wing would easy my anxiety about taxiway lights and let me get into some fields that I presently cannot safely do. Being still in production is a huge advantage and the high wing takes much of the taxiway light phobia I have now developed. All TMG's excepting ones like the RF-4 or Scheibe, have small wheels. EU style, putting-green-like grass is fine, but normal American turf, especially when even a little soft, adds a lot of drag and extends takeoff distance considerably.
  16. HiFlite

    Are TMGs a cheaper entry point into flying?

    Time and money are inversely proportional. Flying for 'cheap' cost a lot of time. Flying conveniently costs a lot of money. Advice is free however ... The more owners, the lower the costs, so pretty much the cheapest way to go is with a glider club. The downside is the amount of time required; but is it a downside? While it might take all day and $100 to get 3 instructional flights totaling an hour, is that $100/hour or $100 for 8 hours? If you enjoy socializing on the ground, the latter is closer to the real cost and it's cheaper per hour than going to a movie. Plus some have families that enjoy the outings. And, being plugged into the aviation world this way, you learn a lot from the more experienced aviators, including partnerships and planes for sale that never get advertised. A far bigger question to answer is not which airplane, it's the ownership method: Club < partnership < sole. As a sole owner, it will be very difficult to run any aircraft cheaper than an FBO will rent it for, unless you're flying 200+ hours per year, which of course, drives total costs way up. Don't expect any TMG to violate the time/money equation, at least not for long. Most have low hours for a reason: it's a pain in the rear, unless you have a hangar with a 60' door opening, to deal with unfolding the long wings. Some deal with that by parking outside, which destroys gel coat (Taifun, Grob), fabric and eventually, everything else. Others let them sit on the ground for long periods of time, which also isn't good. Rotax and LImbach engines and parts, especially certified, cost every bit as much as an O-200 or O-235. The Taifun, besides being very rare and very complex, is long out of production making for difficulties in finding parts. At annual time, you will also be paying a lot of money to educate the IA. Like a Vegas exotic dancer, easy to look at, but hard to life with. An Fourier RF-4 or Scheibe SF-25, might be comparable in cost to own to an old Champ or Pacer, but not a Taifun. And such 65 - 100 hp classic planes are going to be about your best bet in terms of overall costs, plus be ideal for your training purposes. Or, finish your Glastar, which is a fine airplane. The guys 3 hangar doors down from me, bought an unfinished kit together, finished it and are flying it heavily. But cheapest, easiest and likely best next move before committing serious money is a glider club. Remember, and I know this from experience, owing an airplane that one can't afford to fix, is a feeling far worse than not owning one at all.
  17. El_Guapo

    Aircraft Parts wanted

    I'm no expert but that's a nice looking panel.
  18. Rotozuk

    Are TMGs a cheaper entry point into flying?

    Thanks guys for your responses. The insurance and monthly storage are a known expense. Not worried about those, but putting out 10 to 15,000 to gain a PP via the rental fleet just seems like a waste of money. No physical asset at the end of the training. For example a buddy of mine started with the rental path, then bought a pretty nice C model Mooney to finish his training and being a complex single helped build time and ratings in. Worked out well for him as he piled up a lot of hours in the first few years and now flies for an airline. He still has the Mooney, but it flies a lot less. (He should probably sell it.) It has been a great investment for his training. I have a number of people I work with that would be interested in getting into flying as a hobby or career choice. I had good response when I floated the idea of buying an older motor glider and putting it into a club based on the EAA model. Lots of hoops to jump through to make this idea work out, but at least there is interest. I have found an old Tailfun that is need of a lot of work. It is very tempting. Oddly enough one of my bigger hangups is the motor. Since this is a certified plane, it seems I'm pretty much stuck with the 80hp VW based Limbach motor. Even though I am building an experimental airplane and been in the EAA a long time, I am not a fan of auto based engines. Seen plenty of reasons not to trust them. What are your thoughts? Seems a popular engine for motor gliders of this era. Reading accident reports for different motor gliders I don't see a trend of motor failures reported. So that is a good sign. While I'd prefer to get a running plane that is in annual or shortly out of it. A project plane is not out of the question. I do have an AMP that works for me and is one of the folks interested in getting a plane into a club. The Taifun with the tri gear, retracts and prop makes it rather attractive package. I'm also a bit of a fan of composite aircraft. With this said, if a nice little Grob 109 should pop up... Or maybe a Lark 28M2A that seem to be in the lower price range but sound like they have a good reputation..?
  19. Jefferson

    Are TMGs a cheaper entry point into flying?

    If Right Rudder can guarantee to get you a Private Pilot License, Glider Rating with a Self-Launch Endorsement, for $3000, in a brief period of time, that is a great option. It is my understanding that the Right Rudder training is conducted in a Pipistrel ship that is certified as a Glider, with a motor, aka a motorglider. If you obtain your Glider rating in a motorglider, becoming competent with operating the engine and engine-related avionics and gauges, you will likely have the experience required to exercise the Sport Pilot privileges of a Glider-rated Private Pilot. Sport Pilot privileges are slightly limited compared to full low Private Pilot Airplane privileges, but those limitations are not significant for most recreational pilots. What this means is that after you finish obtain your Private Pilot Glider Rating and glider Self-Launch Endorsement, you can get a Sport Pilot Airplane Endorsement by working with Sport Pilot rated instructors. That involves flying with an instructor, and an oral or written test. The Endorsement requires interaction and sign-off of two instructors, but does not require a Practical Exam with an FAA Designated Pilot Examiner. With the Sport Pilot Airplane Endorsement you can exercise Sport Pilot privileges which could allow you to fly an airplane that meets Light Sport Airplane criteria, including (relatively inexpensive) vintage ships like most Cubs, Champs and Luscombes among others, as well as homebuilt and the newer generation of composite LSA ships. Of course if you later want to fly gliders towed into the air by a winch, auto or towplane, you must earn one or all of those endorsements working with a Certified Flight Instructor Glider (CFIG). In summary, this path provides the best of both worlds: licensed to fly gliders and light sport airplanes. And in my experience, you will be insurable.
  20. Sinus Flex Max

    Are TMGs a cheaper entry point into flying?

    Hello Wayne, I'm 75 and own a Pipistrel Sinus Flex Max. I have a commercial certificate glider plus ASEL and Instrument. My insurance this year is just over $3000 and I pay $330 per month for a hangar, so my monthly out-of-pocket is almost $600 before I have even rolled the aircraft out of the hangar. Your least expensive way to fly is to earn a PP SEL with a local flight school and then rent an aircraft from them. Sorry to burst your bubble. Richard
  21. Richard Pearl

    • Richard Pearl
    • Steve Sliwa

    Excellent, Steve. Thanks for continuing the effort.



  22. Hey all I'm new here and have been trying to find a more affordable entry point into flying as a hobby. I'm over 50 and am not looking for a new career path, just want to fly for fun. There are a lot of programs out there to help younger people get into flying, but that is not me. A couple of years ago I took over a Glastar kit and have been working on it. But the economics to complete that kit are going to be taxing for me. I have been flying remote controlled aircraft most of my life. We host 2 slope glider events each year, one of them is pretty large. We have a great time!! The large event is at sea level the other is at Mammoth Mtn, about 10,000 feet. I have wanted to fly full scale since I was a kid, but never put things together. My wife finally said I should just do it, but the costs for a Private or even a Light Sport was more than I was willing to take away from the family budget for something my wife really does not share a love for. Recently I discovered TGMs as a less expensive entry into full scale aviation. I've always known about them, and would always check them out when I ran across one at an airport or event, but did not understand the possible savings they appear to offer. I am very much on the discovery curve on this side of things to see what the reality is and actual costs. Recently I ran across a youtube video that talked about motor gliders being an inexpensive route to getting airborne. The video showed a Florida operation that uses a Pipistrel to get people a glider license and total costs was about $3,000. They cited the low time of 10 hours minimum and all that stuff. My question is just how practical is that? Is any insurance company going to cover me if I only have 10 or 15 hours? So, is it at all practical? Can a student with low time earn a licence, continue to fly within the class and log hours affordably and if they like move onto a private license using the same plane? I'd love to setup a small flying/training club using a TMG. There have been a few pilots I have run into that really stand out as better pilots then the average, ALL of them started off with a glider license! Even the guy that flies a T-28 credits his glider rating for giving him a better skill set and understanding of the weather around him. Sorry, I know this was super long. But I would love to discuss this and see if there is a possibility here or not. You all are the experts in this arena, it is pretty new to me. The other silly question, what planes in this category might I fit in at 6'4" tall? I've found a low time Taifun 17E that could be had pretty cheap as it needs a LOT of work, probably not practical, but opened my eyes. Thanks, -Wayne
  23. Eric Greenwell

    Website Overhaul Dec 26 - It May Fail (But it Didn't)

    Hello Rotozuk, your offer sounds excellent! I sent a message to Steve Sliwa, the site manager, and he should be contacting you soon. Eric Greewell
  24. Just found this site while googling about a Taifun I'm looking at buying. Looks like this site is exactly what I was looking for, and then I ran across this thread. I run another forum for RC Models and would be happy to host your forum on our server. We run a little different software, but sho9uld be able to port things over and give this forum a new home. I'd hate to see it go away. You can see my RC forum, just search for Aloft Forums. You will find no advertising and open and friendly discussion. Can easily give the TMGA their own domain on our server. And if you want to stay onboard and run the site, and we can do the heavy lifting, that would be great too. We are pretty good at keeping the spammers and hackers off our server. Since we already have the server space, it should not cost us much to keep the site up and running. We are currently upgrading our server for more storage and better performance, so it would be a good time. Hit me up if this is of any interest. Please don't let this site die. And please don't put it on Facebook. Yuk!
  25. HiFlite

    AMT-200S weight

    My 2005 Ximango (leather trim, but no lights) shows similar weight on what I believe to be the original documents: 657 kg (1450 lb) basic, printed as a document 6/24/2006 and using metric units. Then, unsigned and handwritten in SAE units: plus 18 lb (8 kg) of avionics [2x 10a's, Garmin 430, 106a, GTX-327], giving a final weight of 1467 lb (667 kg). Useful load is then 183 kg (403 lb). It's not a big problem for me since I'm fairly light and my imaginary girlfriend even lighter, but does remain a mystery. No repairs in the logs and no evidence of them visible on the airframe that I can see. Some small part of the unexpected weight may come from my observation that the surface finish of the last few model years seems to be better than earlier ones. But the extra 50 lb remains hard to explain. BTW, I think that the 850 kg limit comes the EU, not the FAA. The FAA considers them either gliders or airplanes and has no special designation for motorglider or self-launcher, but the US type certificate is based on reciprocal agreements with the EU and thus retains the 850 kg. Do you have any printed reference to the ~2,500 lb weight used in Brazil and some other countries?
  26. HiFlite

    Website Reprieve - Simpler Website Maintained

    Thanks, Steve! I just today got a call from a new Taifun owner and sent him here for information.
  27. Hello. I am the coordinator of a project called Bucharest Aerospace Museum (google it), which recently appeared on various famous websites and magazines, such as AVBuyer. Does anyone have an old complete aircraft or airframe to DONATE (give away) for display into this museum project ? Many thanks.
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