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Touring Motor Gliders Association (TMGA)
  • Grob G109 vs G109B


    Ethan Graham

     Abstract:  I was wondering what the difference is between the
    109A and 109B. Did they make any significant changes?



    Subject: 109 vs 109B
    From: Ray
    Date: 5/16/08 7:08 AM
    To: G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com

    Thanks Dick,

    I was wondering what the difference is between the
    109A and 109B.  Did they make any significant changes?

    I did notice the the different canopy but apart from
    the A canopy being a bit more fragile, I think I like
    it better anyway due to the unobstructed panoramic
    view.

    Anyone have comments on any areas of the 109A that
    need more attention.

    I know there are a bunch of AD's for various things
    that apply to both models so it looks like they did
    not take care of those things in the B version design.

    What vices does a 109 have?

    Ray



    Subject: Re: [G109_Pilots] 109 vs 109B
    From: "Nils Rostedt" <sailor
    Date: 5/16/08 12:53 PM
    To: <G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com>

    Hi
    I flew the 109B to get my first license, and now have a share in a 109.

    Apart from what's been already mentioned, the 109B has dual throttle levers (the one on the left side possibly optional?) and also has a detent to keep the spoilers in half-open position. The detent gives the pilot the option to land "cessna-style" with the spoilers emulating flaps and using throttle for glidepath control, while the 109 is landed glider-style. ( I never used the detent on the 109B, however). The second throttle allows flying with the right hand on the stick for the whole flight.

    Regarding "vices" on the 109, in my opinion the most significant one is that the spoilers are VERY effective when fully extended. I was taught to only open them 2-3 inches (about 1/3 of full travel) during a normal final approach, whereas on the 109B one could often keep the spoilers fully open all the way to touchdown. But like all the other things mentioned, it's just a matter of practice. The 109B is slightly more refined on this point, and perhaps quicker to learn, but also more expensive. I also felt the longer wings on the 109B made it more difficult to track straight during landing and takeoff roll, but that might also be because my lack of experience at the time.



    Subject: Re: [G109_Pilots] Re: 109 vs 109B
    From: Bill Knoll
    Date: 5/16/08 8:02 AM
    To: G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com

    There is one other major difference between the two
    models. The 109B has much thinner wings; and as such
    has different characteristics as a glider. I have
    heard from some that the 109(A) is a better glider.
    That said, I don't care for the brakes on the 109, and
    I'm glad the 109B has an improved system with
    toe-brakes. I wonder if they can be retro-fit to the
    109?
    --- lchapa77 <lchapa@XylZ9lM-Xh_DAiMTCMbN2KHL2XFHemKmDMYsMlSE7m6UtieKOAyRkAS5OJe2ZeomndQp_Ou_qw.yahoo.invalid> wrote:

    Well, I just purchased a 109B few months ago, and
    get my training on
    a 109A and there are major differences beyond the
    canopy.

    Here are the ones that came out to me right now :

    -Individual Toe brakes on the 109B, a nice option on
    a taildragger
    and long wings. (this is probably one of the most
    important
    differences)
    The 109A has only brakes at the end of the spoiler
    handle, both
    activated at the same time.

    -More HP on the 109B

    -Windows on the lower part of the cockpit

    -Wings fold on the 109B

    -109B is around 35% more expensive (not a nice
    difference)



    Subject: Re: 109 vs 109B
    From: "williamberson" <whodunit@0SQ_P4OVrkaskGpJltawKIAOI2Lo5ZKb9_kGn4riC8J6L8Tqlg9LbWYNvL_PPkyzYgi55AKdg-WbLZnU.yahoo.invalid>
    Date: 5/16/08 11:50 AM
    To: G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com

    The G109 has right and left brakes that are operated with the rudder pedals. Braking
    comes after full rudder is pushed. The system works just fine in my opinion, it is just a
    little different. Brakes for both wheels are activated with the spoiler handle or the parking
    lever.

    G109 is correct, G109A does not exist. Sorry to be exact here, but the FAA will insist that
    G109 be used on all paper forms.

    G109 problems:
    Gelcoat cracks.... Gelcoat needs to be replaced with paint.
    Engine needs to run weekly or valves will corrode.
    Climb is good first 2000 feet (about 4- 500 feet per minute) then with a hot engine the
    climb rate will go down. I usually start my cruise at 2000 feet so the engine will run
    cooler.

    Grob Systems Inc. in Ohio has always provided good service. I called them first before
    buying and was glad I did.

    I will sell my G109 for $28,000 as is, including trailer.
    Bill Berson A&P
    whodunit
    360-379-5608
    Port Townsend WA
    G109 owner since 1994

    Subject: Re: 109 vs 109B
    From: "lchapa77" <lchapa@rzX_ASX70hMg4bsFFEqB41xOgJ7pBeI69sbPAI4Gkklpl4tHvBsvS1QLsIfCyfOw64b6NViriHgi92pN.yahoo.invalid>
    Date: 5/16/08 8:13 AM
    To: G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com

    You are right, wings are different, 109A has slight better L/D than
    the B model.
    Also as I understand, B is made out of carbon fibre/fiber glass spar
    and A is a pure fiberglass.

    so, if you fly a 109A and feel comfortable on the brakes with
    crosswinds and taxi (you should get used to I believe) and do not
    need the wing folding option and dont need the extra HP , you can
    save considerably by buying the A model.

    I recommend on flying both and get conclusions based on that.

    good luck

    Subject: Re: 109 vs 109B
    From: "lchapa77" <lchapa@rzX_ASX70hO_JT1iWqmy4i70-JglEYOGvL9paShTU6EU_PLFlTRfs0ikuKhcv4MSb_1wwCSdn_331j7Y.yahoo.invalid>
    Date: 5/16/08 7:29 AM
    To: G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com

    Well, I just purchased a 109B few months ago, and get my training on
    a 109A and there are major differences beyond the canopy.

    Here are the ones that came out to me right now :

    -Individual Toe brakes on the 109B, a nice option on a taildragger
    and long wings. (this is probably one of the most important
    differences)
    The 109A has only brakes at the end of the spoiler handle, both
    activated at the same time.

    -More HP on the 109B

    -Windows on the lower part of the cockpit

    -Wings fold on the 109B

    -109B is around 35% more expensive (not a nice difference)


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    I am buying a G109B.  I have about 100 hours flying the GROB acro II and a SEL rating. What additional training should I get for the G109B?

     

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