AD 2007-23-15 English Text? - Feb 2008

> Hey, I've not been able to get into the Ximango site to get a copy 
> of this SB in English. Anyone got a
> copy? Send it to me directly, and I'll put it on my server and put 
> in a link so everyone can get it.

==================================================

Date:         Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:30:46 -0600
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Ted Gordon <tedjgordon@ATT.NET>
Subject:      Re: AD 2007-23-15 English text available? Ximango site inop?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Bruce:

This URL worked for me; it brings up Aeromot's 200-20-102 Revision B dated
1/23/06.

<http://intranet.aeromot.com.br/internet/bs_web/SB102%20Rev.%20B.pdf>


The new FAA AD,  2007-23-15, can be found at

<http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/753BFB527DCE73F286257399005598A0?OpenDocument&Highlight=2007-23-15>

The FAA reference calls out the Aeromot 200-20-102 Revision B, as follows:

< Applicability

< (c) This AD applies to the following gliders in the table below that:

    <(1) Are certificated in any category; and

    <(2) Have not incorporated the actions in their entirety of Aeromot
SBNo. 200-20-102,    revision A, dated April 19, 2005; or Aeromot SB No.
200-20-102, revision B, dated January 23, 2006.

A bit convoluted, but these URL's give the data needed I think. Any other
interpretations?

Best
Ted

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schimmel" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 6:24 PM
To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: AD 2007-23-15 English text available? Ximango site inop?

> Hey, I've not been able to get into the Ximango site to get a copy of this
> SB in English. Anyone got a
> copy? Send it to me directly, and I'll put it on my server and put in a
> link so everyone can get it.
>
> yrs, Bruce
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:43:18 -0500
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: AD 2007-23-15 English text available? Ximango site inop?
In-Reply-To:  <93FAE1E386174DDA8993D182AF728710@TedPC>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm just getting a blank page when I try the URL for Aeromot's 
2007-20-15.


On Feb 18, 2008, at 10:30 PM, Ted Gordon wrote:

Dear Bruce:

This URL worked for me; it brings up Aeromot's 200-20-102 Revision B 
dated 1/23/06.

<http://intranet.aeromot.com.br/internet/bs_web/SB102%20Rev.%20B.pdf>


The new FAA AD,  2007-23-15, can be found at

<http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/
0/753BFB527DCE73F286257399005598A0?OpenDocument&Highlight=2007-23-15>

The FAA reference calls out the Aeromot 200-20-102 Revision B, as 
follows:

< Applicability

< (c) This AD applies to the following gliders in the table below that:

    <(1) Are certificated in any category; and

    <(2) Have not incorporated the actions in their entirety of 
Aeromot SBNo. 200-20-102,    revision A, dated April 19, 2005; or 
Aeromot SB No. 200-20-102, revision B, dated January 23, 2006.

A bit convoluted, but these URL's give the data needed I think. Any 
other interpretations?

Best
Ted

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schimmel" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 6:24 PM
To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: AD 2007-23-15 English text available? Ximango site inop?

> Hey, I've not been able to get into the Ximango site to get a copy 
> of this SB in English. Anyone got a
> copy? Send it to me directly, and I'll put it on my server and put 
> in a link so everyone can get it.
>
> yrs, Bruce
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:43:38 -0700
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Hermann F. Fasel" <faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
In-Reply-To:  <20080218164353.1EFB1DF3@resin18.mta.everyone.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Holliday,

yes I checked that and sealed them with tape.

Hermann

Hermann F. Fasel
Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
University of Arizona
Tucson, Arizona 85721

Tel.: 520-621-2771
Fax: 520-621-8191


Quoting Holliday Obrecht <HollidayObrecht@COPPER.NET>:

> Hermann,
>
> Did you check the little rivets on the leading edge of the wing
> folding fairings?  If this rivet is loose or missing, you will get a
> very loud whistling noise in the cockpit.  I had one fall out in
> flight.  The noise was very loud and scared me to death!  Hope you
> find out what the cause is.
>
> Best regards,
> Holliday Obrecht
>
>
> --- faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU wrote:
>
> From:         "Hermann F. Fasel" <faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
> To:           XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Subject: Cockpit noise
> Date:         Sun, 17 Feb 2008 22:04:28 -0700
>
> John,
>
> I weather-stripped the canopy following your excellent instructions.
> Unfortunately it did not solve the problem. The noise was exactly the
> same. To
> make sure that it was not caused by air coming through the gap between canopy
> and airframe, in a flight today I had a friend seal the gap all around the
> canopy from the outside - using wingtape - after the canopy was locked down
> prior to T/O. Again no effect on the noise. Therefore I am certain now
> that the noise is not caused be air coming through the canopy gap.
> Then I sealed
> the NACA air-scoops on the left and right outside of the cockpit,
> which provide
> fresh air into the cockpit - also no effect. I have sealed and
> resealed the gaps
> between wings and fuselage several times - also no effect. I am at a
> total loss
> of what is going on.
>
> Here is an updated summary of what I observed so far:
> There is a terribly loud (high-frequency) whistling noise in the
> cockpit which
> can not be tolerated even with my headset using active noise
> cancellation. The
> noise is much stronger on the left side of the cockpit than on the
> right side.
> When I put my hand on the (inside) wall of the cockpit (airframe - not the
> canopy) I can feel a high frequency vibration (the canopy does not vibrate).
> The wall of the right side of the cockpit does not vibrate. The noise occurs
> both with engine on or off (thus it is not related to engine vibration). It
> starts during takeoff (35-40KTS) and stops after landing. The noise (both
> frequency) and amplitude) is insensitive to flight speed and plane attitude
> (angle of attack) except when stalling the airplane (which gets me below the
> 35 KTS. The noise is the same with landing gear up or down.
>
> Have you or anybody else experienced anything like that? I am desperate
> because the airplane is not flyable and the mechanics I have asked
> also do not
> have any idea.
>
> Hermann
>
>
> Hermann F. Fasel
> Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
> University of Arizona
> Tucson, Arizona 85721
>
> Tel.: 520-621-2771
> Fax: 520-621-8191
>
>
> Quoting John Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>:
>
>> In a message dated 1/24/2008 3:51:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:
>>
>>>>>>> Where do you buy the foam? Is it standard material  or something
>> special? What
>> kind of tape do you suggest to attach the  foam?<<<<<<
>>
>> Hello Hermann,
>>
>> We use thin, self adhesive weather-strip available at any home  improvement
>> store such as Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Ace Hardware has good foam,  too. I
>> particularly like the Ace Hardware brand foam because it has a thin  film of
>> cellulose between the adhesive and the foam that makes removal
>> easier. The gray
>> Ace stuff seems to be a bit more UV resistant than  the tan stuff
>> sold by Home
>> Depot, too.
>>
>>  Get the thinnest you can find, i.e., 3/16" or thinner, open cell.  1/8"
>> really works well, but is sometimes hard to find.  If you use
>> anything  thicker or
>> the closed cell variety, you run the risk of affecting the fit of  your
>> canopy when closed. Apply when it's warm, say 60F or above. If you
>> don't  get these
>> sorts of temps, you can heat the mating surface slightly where  the foam is
>> to be applied with a hair dryer or heat gun.
>>
>> You probably won't need the foam after temps warm up and the 
>> existing closed
>> cell foam becomes pliable again. Just peel off the open cell  foam when the
>> temps warm up when you're done with it. Any residual adhesive  left
>> behind will
>> come off easily with acetone. Even though it's not  pretty, I would stick it
>> to the fuselage, opposite the closed cell foam on the  canopy rail.
>> You could
>> stick it to the existing closed cell foam on  the canopy rail to keep it out
>> of sight, but we've found that it doesn't stick  very well to the
>> closed cell
>> foam and usually peels off in a matter of a  few days, no matter how
>> much prep
>> you do.
>>
>> Wipe the surface where the foam is to be applied with acetone or  denatured
>> alcohol before application to remove any grease or wax. Be careful if
>>  you use
>> acetone to keep it far away from the canopy itself. Acetone will harm  the
>> Plexiglas canopy by making a frosty spot anywhere it contacts it.  If you do
>> happen to get a drop on the canopy and the resulting frost, you  can
>> sand it out
>> (LIGHTLY) with 1200 then a light buff with plastic buffing  rouge
>> will make it
>> go away in most cases, but it's best to not go there.  Denatured
>> alcohol will
>> not harm the canopy. Neither acetone or denatured  alcohol will harm the
>> finish, gel coat or urethane, although I wouldn't  leave a rag soaked
>> with acetone
>> sitting on any painted or gel coat surface  for long because after a
>> while it
>> will soften the paint or gel coat. Denatured  alcohol will not do
>> this. Wiping
>> the painted or gel coated surfaces with acetone  or denatured alcohol is
>> fine, though.
>>
>> You can also use this type foam to seal up the fuel access doors and gear
>> doors, both of which if not sealed are sources for drag because of
>> the pressure
>> differential between inside and outside the wing when at flying speeds.
>>
>> Anyway, hope it helps!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> John  Lawton
>> Whitwell, TN (TN89)
>> Ximango #135
>>
>>
>>
>> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
>>
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
>> 48)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:15:18 -0600
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         David McConeghey <mcconeghey@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
In-Reply-To:  <20080217220428.vgp2dc4og88wcsco@www.email.arizona.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Hermann,

Could it be your Stall Warning or Gear Warning Audio Annunciator? Could it
be the wires to the Stall Warning are reversed so it is on when it should be
off and off when it should be on?  Is your stall Stall Warning vane/switch
bent?

Does your audio landing gear warning annunciator work correctly?  When you
extend the spoilers with the landing gear up does it activate?  After
extending the gear does it become silent?

Dave McConeghey

On Feb 17, 2008 11:04 PM, Hermann F. Fasel <faselh@email.arizona.edu> wrote:

> John,
>
> I weather-stripped the canopy following your excellent instructions.
> Unfortunately it did not solve the problem. The noise was exactly the
> same. To
> make sure that it was not caused by air coming through the gap between
> canopy
> and airframe, in a flight today I had a friend seal the gap all around the
> canopy from the outside - using wingtape - after the canopy was locked
> down
> prior to T/O. Again no effect on the noise. Therefore I am certain now
> that the noise is not caused be air coming through the canopy gap. Then I
> sealed
> the NACA air-scoops on the left and right outside of the cockpit, which
> provide
> fresh air into the cockpit - also no effect. I have sealed and resealed
> the gaps
> between wings and fuselage several times - also no effect. I am at a total
> loss
> of what is going on.
>
> Here is an updated summary of what I observed so far:
> There is a terribly loud (high-frequency) whistling noise in the cockpit
> which
> can not be tolerated even with my headset using active noise cancellation.
> The
> noise is much stronger on the left side of the cockpit than on the right
> side.
> When I put my hand on the (inside) wall of the cockpit (airframe - not the
> canopy) I can feel a high frequency vibration (the canopy does not
> vibrate).
> The wall of the right side of the cockpit does not vibrate. The noise
> occurs
> both with engine on or off (thus it is not related to engine vibration).
> It
> starts during takeoff (35-40KTS) and stops after landing. The noise (both
> frequency) and amplitude) is insensitive to flight speed and plane
> attitude
> (angle of attack) except when stalling the airplane (which gets me below
> the
> 35 KTS. The noise is the same with landing gear up or down.
>
> Have you or anybody else experienced anything like that? I am desperate
> because the airplane is not flyable and the mechanics I have asked also do
> not
> have any idea.
>
> Hermann
>
>
> Hermann F. Fasel
> Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
> University of Arizona
> Tucson, Arizona 85721
>
> Tel.: 520-621-2771
> Fax: 520-621-8191
>
>
> Quoting John Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>:
>
> > In a message dated 1/24/2008 3:51:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:
> >
> >>>>>> Where do you buy the foam? Is it standard material  or something
> > special? What
> > kind of tape do you suggest to attach the  foam?<<<<<<
> >
> > Hello Hermann,
> >
> > We use thin, self adhesive weather-strip available at any home
>  improvement
> > store such as Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Ace Hardware has good foam,  too.
> I
> > particularly like the Ace Hardware brand foam because it has a thin
>  film of
> > cellulose between the adhesive and the foam that makes removal
> > easier. The gray
> > Ace stuff seems to be a bit more UV resistant than  the tan stuff
> > sold by Home
> > Depot, too.
> >
> >  Get the thinnest you can find, i.e., 3/16" or thinner, open cell.  1/8"
> > really works well, but is sometimes hard to find.  If you use
> > anything  thicker or
> > the closed cell variety, you run the risk of affecting the fit of  your
> > canopy when closed. Apply when it's warm, say 60F or above. If you
> > don't  get these
> > sorts of temps, you can heat the mating surface slightly where  the foam
> is
> > to be applied with a hair dryer or heat gun.
> >
> > You probably won't need the foam after temps warm up and the  existing
> closed
> > cell foam becomes pliable again. Just peel off the open cell  foam when
> the
> > temps warm up when you're done with it. Any residual adhesive  left
> > behind will
> > come off easily with acetone. Even though it's not  pretty, I would
> stick it
> > to the fuselage, opposite the closed cell foam on the  canopy rail. You
> could
> > stick it to the existing closed cell foam on  the canopy rail to keep it
> out
> > of sight, but we've found that it doesn't stick  very well to the closed
> cell
> > foam and usually peels off in a matter of a  few days, no matter how
> > much prep
> > you do.
> >
> > Wipe the surface where the foam is to be applied with acetone or
>  denatured
> > alcohol before application to remove any grease or wax. Be careful if
> >  you use
> > acetone to keep it far away from the canopy itself. Acetone will harm
>  the
> > Plexiglas canopy by making a frosty spot anywhere it contacts it.  If
> you do
> > happen to get a drop on the canopy and the resulting frost, you  can
> > sand it out
> > (LIGHTLY) with 1200 then a light buff with plastic buffing  rouge
> > will make it
> > go away in most cases, but it's best to not go there.  Denatured alcohol
> will
> > not harm the canopy. Neither acetone or denatured  alcohol will harm the
> > finish, gel coat or urethane, although I wouldn't  leave a rag soaked
> > with acetone
> > sitting on any painted or gel coat surface  for long because after a
> while it
> > will soften the paint or gel coat. Denatured  alcohol will not do
> > this. Wiping
> > the painted or gel coated surfaces with acetone  or denatured alcohol is
> > fine, though.
> >
> > You can also use this type foam to seal up the fuel access doors and
> gear
> > doors, both of which if not sealed are sources for drag because of
> > the pressure
> > differential between inside and outside the wing when at flying speeds.
> >
> > Anyway, hope it helps!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John  Lawton
> > Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> > Ximango #135
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> >
> (
> http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> > 48)
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:40:39 -0800
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Rob Morgan <ls-484@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
In-Reply-To:  <6ef836ff0802182015x48b7e7d9h498dad4e31dad623@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Herman,
  
  First of all, let me say that I've not exerienced the cockpit noise problem you have described.  John Lawton responded back before I could, offering what I consider good suggestions for sealing the canopy.  I say good because I've been doing the exact same thing on the different aircraft I've owned over the last 20 years, and it did improve the quiteness of the Ximango, though not to the extent I've experienced on most sailplanes.
  
  You have certainly covered many areas which would be suspect for creating a noice issue.  Let me offer 2 other possibilities...
  
  #1  Is the window on the left side of the canopy tight?  All screws and rails snug?  The little airscoop...is it snug and not vibrating?
  
  #2  I'd suggest removing the upper and lower level cowling from the engine and doing a serious look to see if anything could be vibrating as a result of airflow in the engine compartment. Particularly anything that could transmit vibrations to the left side of the fuselage.  How about the cowl flap?  Snug & secure?  Any evidence of metal fatigue?  How about all the zuess (sp?) fasteners for the cowling itself?  Are all tight?
  
  Best of luck resolving the problem.
  
  Rob

David McConeghey <mcconeghey@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
  Hermann,

Could it be your Stall Warning or Gear Warning Audio Annunciator? Could it
be the wires to the Stall Warning are reversed so it is on when it should be
off and off when it should be on? Is your stall Stall Warning vane/switch
bent?

Does your audio landing gear warning annunciator work correctly? When you
extend the spoilers with the landing gear up does it activate? After
extending the gear does it become silent?

Dave McConeghey

On Feb 17, 2008 11:04 PM, Hermann F. Fasel wrote:

> John,
>
> I weather-stripped the canopy following your excellent instructions.
> Unfortunately it did not solve the problem. The noise was exactly the
> same. To
> make sure that it was not caused by air coming through the gap between
> canopy
> and airframe, in a flight today I had a friend seal the gap all around the
> canopy from the outside - using wingtape - after the canopy was locked
> down
> prior to T/O. Again no effect on the noise. Therefore I am certain now
> that the noise is not caused be air coming through the canopy gap. Then I
> sealed
> the NACA air-scoops on the left and right outside of the cockpit, which
> provide
> fresh air into the cockpit - also no effect. I have sealed and resealed
> the gaps
> between wings and fuselage several times - also no effect. I am at a total
> loss
> of what is going on.
>
> Here is an updated summary of what I observed so far:
> There is a terribly loud (high-frequency) whistling noise in the cockpit
> which
> can not be tolerated even with my headset using active noise cancellation.
> The
> noise is much stronger on the left side of the cockpit than on the right
> side.
> When I put my hand on the (inside) wall of the cockpit (airframe - not the
> canopy) I can feel a high frequency vibration (the canopy does not
> vibrate).
> The wall of the right side of the cockpit does not vibrate. The noise
> occurs
> both with engine on or off (thus it is not related to engine vibration).
> It
> starts during takeoff (35-40KTS) and stops after landing. The noise (both
> frequency) and amplitude) is insensitive to flight speed and plane
> attitude
> (angle of attack) except when stalling the airplane (which gets me below
> the
> 35 KTS. The noise is the same with landing gear up or down.
>
> Have you or anybody else experienced anything like that? I am desperate
> because the airplane is not flyable and the mechanics I have asked also do
> not
> have any idea.
>
> Hermann
>
>
> Hermann F. Fasel
> Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
> University of Arizona
> Tucson, Arizona 85721
>
> Tel.: 520-621-2771
> Fax: 520-621-8191
>
>
> Quoting John Lawton :
>
> > In a message dated 1/24/2008 3:51:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:
> >
> >>>>>> Where do you buy the foam? Is it standard material or something
> > special? What
> > kind of tape do you suggest to attach the foam?<<<<<<
> >
> > Hello Hermann,
> >
> > We use thin, self adhesive weather-strip available at any home
> improvement
> > store such as Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Ace Hardware has good foam, too.
> I
> > particularly like the Ace Hardware brand foam because it has a thin
> film of
> > cellulose between the adhesive and the foam that makes removal
> > easier. The gray
> > Ace stuff seems to be a bit more UV resistant than the tan stuff
> > sold by Home
> > Depot, too.
> >
> > Get the thinnest you can find, i.e., 3/16" or thinner, open cell. 1/8"
> > really works well, but is sometimes hard to find. If you use
> > anything thicker or
> > the closed cell variety, you run the risk of affecting the fit of your
> > canopy when closed. Apply when it's warm, say 60F or above. If you
> > don't get these
> > sorts of temps, you can heat the mating surface slightly where the foam
> is
> > to be applied with a hair dryer or heat gun.
> >
> > You probably won't need the foam after temps warm up and the existing
> closed
> > cell foam becomes pliable again. Just peel off the open cell foam when
> the
> > temps warm up when you're done with it. Any residual adhesive left
> > behind will
> > come off easily with acetone. Even though it's not pretty, I would
> stick it
> > to the fuselage, opposite the closed cell foam on the canopy rail. You
> could
> > stick it to the existing closed cell foam on the canopy rail to keep it
> out
> > of sight, but we've found that it doesn't stick very well to the closed
> cell
> > foam and usually peels off in a matter of a few days, no matter how
> > much prep
> > you do.
> >
> > Wipe the surface where the foam is to be applied with acetone or
> denatured
> > alcohol before application to remove any grease or wax. Be careful if
> > you use
> > acetone to keep it far away from the canopy itself. Acetone will harm
> the
> > Plexiglas canopy by making a frosty spot anywhere it contacts it. If
> you do
> > happen to get a drop on the canopy and the resulting frost, you can
> > sand it out
> > (LIGHTLY) with 1200 then a light buff with plastic buffing rouge
> > will make it
> > go away in most cases, but it's best to not go there. Denatured alcohol
> will
> > not harm the canopy. Neither acetone or denatured alcohol will harm the
> > finish, gel coat or urethane, although I wouldn't leave a rag soaked
> > with acetone
> > sitting on any painted or gel coat surface for long because after a
> while it
> > will soften the paint or gel coat. Denatured alcohol will not do
> > this. Wiping
> > the painted or gel coated surfaces with acetone or denatured alcohol is
> > fine, though.
> >
> > You can also use this type foam to seal up the fuel access doors and
> gear
> > doors, both of which if not sealed are sources for drag because of
> > the pressure
> > differential between inside and outside the wing when at flying speeds.
> >
> > Anyway, hope it helps!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Lawton
> > Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> > Ximango #135
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> >
> (
> http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> > 48)
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:10:09 -0700
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Hermann F. Fasel" <faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
In-Reply-To:  <6ef836ff0802182015x48b7e7d9h498dad4e31dad623@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dave,
thanks for your help.
I am not aware that my Ximango has a stall warning vane/switch - were would it
be? I never heard anything and I have practiced stalls many times. Maybe you
are on to something.
the audio for the landing gear warning annunciator work correctly.

Hermann

Hermann F. Fasel
Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
University of Arizona
Tucson, Arizona 85721

Tel.: 520-621-2771
Fax: 520-621-8191


Quoting David McConeghey <mcconeghey@GMAIL.COM>:

> Hermann,
>
> Could it be your Stall Warning or Gear Warning Audio Annunciator? Could it
> be the wires to the Stall Warning are reversed so it is on when it should be
> off and off when it should be on?  Is your stall Stall Warning vane/switch
> bent?
>
> Does your audio landing gear warning annunciator work correctly?  When you
> extend the spoilers with the landing gear up does it activate?  After
> extending the gear does it become silent?
>
> Dave McConeghey
>
> On Feb 17, 2008 11:04 PM, Hermann F. Fasel <faselh@email.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> I weather-stripped the canopy following your excellent instructions.
>> Unfortunately it did not solve the problem. The noise was exactly the
>> same. To
>> make sure that it was not caused by air coming through the gap between
>> canopy
>> and airframe, in a flight today I had a friend seal the gap all around the
>> canopy from the outside - using wingtape - after the canopy was locked
>> down
>> prior to T/O. Again no effect on the noise. Therefore I am certain now
>> that the noise is not caused be air coming through the canopy gap. Then I
>> sealed
>> the NACA air-scoops on the left and right outside of the cockpit, which
>> provide
>> fresh air into the cockpit - also no effect. I have sealed and resealed
>> the gaps
>> between wings and fuselage several times - also no effect. I am at a total
>> loss
>> of what is going on.
>>
>> Here is an updated summary of what I observed so far:
>> There is a terribly loud (high-frequency) whistling noise in the cockpit
>> which
>> can not be tolerated even with my headset using active noise cancellation.
>> The
>> noise is much stronger on the left side of the cockpit than on the right
>> side.
>> When I put my hand on the (inside) wall of the cockpit (airframe - not the
>> canopy) I can feel a high frequency vibration (the canopy does not
>> vibrate).
>> The wall of the right side of the cockpit does not vibrate. The noise
>> occurs
>> both with engine on or off (thus it is not related to engine vibration).
>> It
>> starts during takeoff (35-40KTS) and stops after landing. The noise (both
>> frequency) and amplitude) is insensitive to flight speed and plane
>> attitude
>> (angle of attack) except when stalling the airplane (which gets me below
>> the
>> 35 KTS. The noise is the same with landing gear up or down.
>>
>> Have you or anybody else experienced anything like that? I am desperate
>> because the airplane is not flyable and the mechanics I have asked also do
>> not
>> have any idea.
>>
>> Hermann
>>
>>
>> Hermann F. Fasel
>> Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
>> University of Arizona
>> Tucson, Arizona 85721
>>
>> Tel.: 520-621-2771
>> Fax: 520-621-8191
>>
>>
>> Quoting John Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>:
>>
>> > In a message dated 1/24/2008 3:51:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> > faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:
>> >
>> >>>>>> Where do you buy the foam? Is it standard material  or something
>> > special? What
>> > kind of tape do you suggest to attach the  foam?<<<<<<
>> >
>> > Hello Hermann,
>> >
>> > We use thin, self adhesive weather-strip available at any home
>>  improvement
>> > store such as Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Ace Hardware has good foam,  too.
>> I
>> > particularly like the Ace Hardware brand foam because it has a thin
>>  film of
>> > cellulose between the adhesive and the foam that makes removal
>> > easier. The gray
>> > Ace stuff seems to be a bit more UV resistant than  the tan stuff
>> > sold by Home
>> > Depot, too.
>> >
>> >  Get the thinnest you can find, i.e., 3/16" or thinner, open cell.  1/8"
>> > really works well, but is sometimes hard to find.  If you use
>> > anything  thicker or
>> > the closed cell variety, you run the risk of affecting the fit of  your
>> > canopy when closed. Apply when it's warm, say 60F or above. If you
>> > don't  get these
>> > sorts of temps, you can heat the mating surface slightly where  the foam
>> is
>> > to be applied with a hair dryer or heat gun.
>> >
>> > You probably won't need the foam after temps warm up and the  existing
>> closed
>> > cell foam becomes pliable again. Just peel off the open cell  foam when
>> the
>> > temps warm up when you're done with it. Any residual adhesive  left
>> > behind will
>> > come off easily with acetone. Even though it's not  pretty, I would
>> stick it
>> > to the fuselage, opposite the closed cell foam on the  canopy rail. You
>> could
>> > stick it to the existing closed cell foam on  the canopy rail to keep it
>> out
>> > of sight, but we've found that it doesn't stick  very well to the closed
>> cell
>> > foam and usually peels off in a matter of a  few days, no matter how
>> > much prep
>> > you do.
>> >
>> > Wipe the surface where the foam is to be applied with acetone or
>>  denatured
>> > alcohol before application to remove any grease or wax. Be careful if
>> >  you use
>> > acetone to keep it far away from the canopy itself. Acetone will harm
>>  the
>> > Plexiglas canopy by making a frosty spot anywhere it contacts it.  If
>> you do
>> > happen to get a drop on the canopy and the resulting frost, you  can
>> > sand it out
>> > (LIGHTLY) with 1200 then a light buff with plastic buffing  rouge
>> > will make it
>> > go away in most cases, but it's best to not go there.  Denatured alcohol
>> will
>> > not harm the canopy. Neither acetone or denatured  alcohol will harm the
>> > finish, gel coat or urethane, although I wouldn't  leave a rag soaked
>> > with acetone
>> > sitting on any painted or gel coat surface  for long because after a
>> while it
>> > will soften the paint or gel coat. Denatured  alcohol will not do
>> > this. Wiping
>> > the painted or gel coated surfaces with acetone  or denatured alcohol is
>> > fine, though.
>> >
>> > You can also use this type foam to seal up the fuel access doors and
>> gear
>> > doors, both of which if not sealed are sources for drag because of
>> > the pressure
>> > differential between inside and outside the wing when at flying speeds.
>> >
>> > Anyway, hope it helps!
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > John  Lawton
>> > Whitwell, TN (TN89)
>> > Ximango #135
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
>> >
>> (
>> http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
>> > 48)
>>
>>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:20:12 -0700
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Hermann F. Fasel" <faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
In-Reply-To:  <703150.26438.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rob,
thanks for your suggestions. Below are my answers:


>   #1  Is the window on the left side of the canopy tight?  All screws
> and rails snug?  The little airscoop...is it snug and not vibrating?

Windows are tight - there is no difference in the noise windows open or
closed.
I taped the airscoops closed from the outside - no effect
>
>   #2  I'd suggest removing the upper and lower level cowling from the
> engine and doing a serious look to see if anything could be vibrating
> as a result of airflow in the engine compartment. Particularly
> anything that could transmit vibrations to the left side of the
> fuselage.  How about the cowl flap?  Snug & secure?  Any evidence of
> metal fatigue?  How about all the zuess (sp?) fasteners for the
> cowling itself?  Are all tight?

I have checked the engine compartment - but will do again -
The cowl flap is tight - no difference of noise with cowl flap open or
closed or
any position in between.

All fasteners were tight

Hermann

Hermann F. Fasel
Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
University of Arizona
Tucson, Arizona 85721

Tel.: 520-621-2771
Fax: 520-621-8191


Quoting Rob Morgan <ls-484@SBCGLOBAL.NET>:

> Herman,
>
>   First of all, let me say that I've not exerienced the cockpit noise
> problem you have described.  John Lawton responded back before I
> could, offering what I consider good suggestions for sealing the
> canopy.  I say good because I've been doing the exact same thing on
> the different aircraft I've owned over the last 20 years, and it did
> improve the quiteness of the Ximango, though not to the extent I've
> experienced on most sailplanes.
>
>   You have certainly covered many areas which would be suspect for
> creating a noice issue.  Let me offer 2 other possibilities...
>
>   #1  Is the window on the left side of the canopy tight?  All screws
> and rails snug?  The little airscoop...is it snug and not vibrating?
>
>   #2  I'd suggest removing the upper and lower level cowling from the
> engine and doing a serious look to see if anything could be vibrating
> as a result of airflow in the engine compartment. Particularly
> anything that could transmit vibrations to the left side of the
> fuselage.  How about the cowl flap?  Snug & secure?  Any evidence of
> metal fatigue?  How about all the zuess (sp?) fasteners for the
> cowling itself?  Are all tight?
>
>   Best of luck resolving the problem.
>
>   Rob
>
> David McConeghey <mcconeghey@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   Hermann,
>
> Could it be your Stall Warning or Gear Warning Audio Annunciator? Could it
> be the wires to the Stall Warning are reversed so it is on when it should be
> off and off when it should be on? Is your stall Stall Warning vane/switch
> bent?
>
> Does your audio landing gear warning annunciator work correctly? When you
> extend the spoilers with the landing gear up does it activate? After
> extending the gear does it become silent?
>
> Dave McConeghey
>
> On Feb 17, 2008 11:04 PM, Hermann F. Fasel wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> I weather-stripped the canopy following your excellent instructions.
>> Unfortunately it did not solve the problem. The noise was exactly the
>> same. To
>> make sure that it was not caused by air coming through the gap between
>> canopy
>> and airframe, in a flight today I had a friend seal the gap all around the
>> canopy from the outside - using wingtape - after the canopy was locked
>> down
>> prior to T/O. Again no effect on the noise. Therefore I am certain now
>> that the noise is not caused be air coming through the canopy gap. Then I
>> sealed
>> the NACA air-scoops on the left and right outside of the cockpit, which
>> provide
>> fresh air into the cockpit - also no effect. I have sealed and resealed
>> the gaps
>> between wings and fuselage several times - also no effect. I am at a total
>> loss
>> of what is going on.
>>
>> Here is an updated summary of what I observed so far:
>> There is a terribly loud (high-frequency) whistling noise in the cockpit
>> which
>> can not be tolerated even with my headset using active noise cancellation.
>> The
>> noise is much stronger on the left side of the cockpit than on the right
>> side.
>> When I put my hand on the (inside) wall of the cockpit (airframe - not the
>> canopy) I can feel a high frequency vibration (the canopy does not
>> vibrate).
>> The wall of the right side of the cockpit does not vibrate. The noise
>> occurs
>> both with engine on or off (thus it is not related to engine vibration).
>> It
>> starts during takeoff (35-40KTS) and stops after landing. The noise (both
>> frequency) and amplitude) is insensitive to flight speed and plane
>> attitude
>> (angle of attack) except when stalling the airplane (which gets me below
>> the
>> 35 KTS. The noise is the same with landing gear up or down.
>>
>> Have you or anybody else experienced anything like that? I am desperate
>> because the airplane is not flyable and the mechanics I have asked also do
>> not
>> have any idea.
>>
>> Hermann
>>
>>
>> Hermann F. Fasel
>> Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
>> University of Arizona
>> Tucson, Arizona 85721
>>
>> Tel.: 520-621-2771
>> Fax: 520-621-8191
>>
>>
>> Quoting John Lawton :
>>
>> > In a message dated 1/24/2008 3:51:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> > faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:
>> >
>> >>>>>> Where do you buy the foam? Is it standard material or something
>> > special? What
>> > kind of tape do you suggest to attach the foam?<<<<<<
>> >
>> > Hello Hermann,
>> >
>> > We use thin, self adhesive weather-strip available at any home
>> improvement
>> > store such as Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Ace Hardware has good foam, too.
>> I
>> > particularly like the Ace Hardware brand foam because it has a thin
>> film of
>> > cellulose between the adhesive and the foam that makes removal
>> > easier. The gray
>> > Ace stuff seems to be a bit more UV resistant than the tan stuff
>> > sold by Home
>> > Depot, too.
>> >
>> > Get the thinnest you can find, i.e., 3/16" or thinner, open cell. 1/8"
>> > really works well, but is sometimes hard to find. If you use
>> > anything thicker or
>> > the closed cell variety, you run the risk of affecting the fit of your
>> > canopy when closed. Apply when it's warm, say 60F or above. If you
>> > don't get these
>> > sorts of temps, you can heat the mating surface slightly where the foam
>> is
>> > to be applied with a hair dryer or heat gun.
>> >
>> > You probably won't need the foam after temps warm up and the existing
>> closed
>> > cell foam becomes pliable again. Just peel off the open cell foam when
>> the
>> > temps warm up when you're done with it. Any residual adhesive left
>> > behind will
>> > come off easily with acetone. Even though it's not pretty, I would
>> stick it
>> > to the fuselage, opposite the closed cell foam on the canopy rail. You
>> could
>> > stick it to the existing closed cell foam on the canopy rail to keep it
>> out
>> > of sight, but we've found that it doesn't stick very well to the closed
>> cell
>> > foam and usually peels off in a matter of a few days, no matter how
>> > much prep
>> > you do.
>> >
>> > Wipe the surface where the foam is to be applied with acetone or
>> denatured
>> > alcohol before application to remove any grease or wax. Be careful if
>> > you use
>> > acetone to keep it far away from the canopy itself. Acetone will harm
>> the
>> > Plexiglas canopy by making a frosty spot anywhere it contacts it. If
>> you do
>> > happen to get a drop on the canopy and the resulting frost, you can
>> > sand it out
>> > (LIGHTLY) with 1200 then a light buff with plastic buffing rouge
>> > will make it
>> > go away in most cases, but it's best to not go there. Denatured alcohol
>> will
>> > not harm the canopy. Neither acetone or denatured alcohol will harm the
>> > finish, gel coat or urethane, although I wouldn't leave a rag soaked
>> > with acetone
>> > sitting on any painted or gel coat surface for long because after a
>> while it
>> > will soften the paint or gel coat. Denatured alcohol will not do
>> > this. Wiping
>> > the painted or gel coated surfaces with acetone or denatured alcohol is
>> > fine, though.
>> >
>> > You can also use this type foam to seal up the fuel access doors and
>> gear
>> > doors, both of which if not sealed are sources for drag because of
>> > the pressure
>> > differential between inside and outside the wing when at flying speeds.
>> >
>> > Anyway, hope it helps!
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > John Lawton
>> > Whitwell, TN (TN89)
>> > Ximango #135
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
>> >
>> (
>> http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
>> > 48)
>>
>>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:26:15 -0700
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Hermann F. Fasel" <faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
In-Reply-To:  <F8FB2F457E38419EB79450D02EE41126@TedPC>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ted,
thanks. I will check your suggestions.
Hermann

Hermann F. Fasel
Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
University of Arizona
Tucson, Arizona 85721

Tel.: 520-621-2771
Fax: 520-621-8191


Quoting Ted Gordon <tedjgordon@ATT.NET>:

> Dear Hermann:
>
> As Bruce suggests, the wing tape could do it.
>
> Since it is obviously aerodynamic (doesn't happen at zero velocity as it
> might from a defective gyro), then something must be vibrating as a result
> of air flow above 35 kts. It's strong enough to transmit energy to the
> fuselage side wall. So what could it be? The only things that occur to me
> are: 1) the landing gear fairings or air flow through the LG wells might be
> the cause or 2) vibration of the spoiler cap or air flow through the spoiler
> wells.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Best
> Ted
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Bruce SCHIMMEL" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:35 AM
> To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
> Subject: Re: Cockpit noise
>
>> Have you checked the tape that seals the wing root? I've noticed a
>> screaming noise if that's not sealed right.
>> bruce
>> On Feb 18, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Hermann F. Fasel wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>> I weather-stripped the canopy following your excellent instructions.
>> Unfortunately it did not solve the problem. The noise was exactly
>> the same. To
>> make sure that it was not caused by air coming through the gap 
>> between canopy
>> and airframe, in a flight today I had a friend seal the gap all  around the
>> canopy from the outside - using wingtape - after the canopy was  locked down
>> prior to T/O. Again no effect on the noise. Therefore I am certain now
>> that the noise is not caused be air coming through the canopy gap. 
>> Then I sealed
>> the NACA air-scoops on the left and right outside of the cockpit, 
>> which provide
>> fresh air into the cockpit - also no effect. I have sealed and 
>> resealed the gaps
>> between wings and fuselage several times - also no effect. I am at a
>> total loss
>> of what is going on.
>>
>> Here is an updated summary of what I observed so far:
>> There is a terribly loud (high-frequency) whistling noise in the 
>> cockpit which
>> can not be tolerated even with my headset using active noise
>> cancellation. The
>> noise is much stronger on the left side of the cockpit than on the 
>> right side.
>> When I put my hand on the (inside) wall of the cockpit (airframe -  not the
>> canopy) I can feel a high frequency vibration (the canopy does not vibrate).
>> The wall of the right side of the cockpit does not vibrate. The noise occurs
>> both with engine on or off (thus it is not related to engine  vibration). It
>> starts during takeoff (35-40KTS) and stops after landing. The noise  (both
>> frequency) and amplitude) is insensitive to flight speed and plane attitude
>> (angle of attack) except when stalling the airplane (which gets me 
>> below the
>> 35 KTS. The noise is the same with landing gear up or down.
>>
>> Have you or anybody else experienced anything like that? I am desperate
>> because the airplane is not flyable and the mechanics I have asked 
>> also do not
>> have any idea.
>>
>> Hermann
>>
>>
>> Hermann F. Fasel
>> Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
>> University of Arizona
>> Tucson, Arizona 85721
>>
>> Tel.: 520-621-2771
>> Fax: 520-621-8191
>>
>>
>> Quoting John Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>:
>>
>>> In a message dated 1/24/2008 3:51:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>>> faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Where do you buy the foam? Is it standard material  or something
>>> special? What
>>> kind of tape do you suggest to attach the  foam?<<<<<<
>>>
>>> Hello Hermann,
>>>
>>> We use thin, self adhesive weather-strip available at any home improvement
>>> store such as Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Ace Hardware has good foam,   too. I
>>> particularly like the Ace Hardware brand foam because it has a 
>>> thin film of
>>> cellulose between the adhesive and the foam that makes removal
>>> easier. The gray
>>> Ace stuff seems to be a bit more UV resistant than  the tan stuff
>>> sold by Home
>>> Depot, too.
>>>
>>>  Get the thinnest you can find, i.e., 3/16" or thinner, open cell.   1/8"
>>> really works well, but is sometimes hard to find.  If you use
>>> anything  thicker or
>>> the closed cell variety, you run the risk of affecting the fit of   your
>>> canopy when closed. Apply when it's warm, say 60F or above. If you
>>> don't  get these
>>> sorts of temps, you can heat the mating surface slightly where  the
>>>  foam is
>>> to be applied with a hair dryer or heat gun.
>>>
>>> You probably won't need the foam after temps warm up and the  
>>> existing closed
>>> cell foam becomes pliable again. Just peel off the open cell  foam 
>>> when the
>>> temps warm up when you're done with it. Any residual adhesive  left
>>> behind will
>>> come off easily with acetone. Even though it's not  pretty, I would
>>> stick it
>>> to the fuselage, opposite the closed cell foam on the  canopy rail.
>>>  You could
>>> stick it to the existing closed cell foam on  the canopy rail to 
>>> keep it out
>>> of sight, but we've found that it doesn't stick  very well to the 
>>> closed cell
>>> foam and usually peels off in a matter of a  few days, no matter how
>>> much prep
>>> you do.
>>>
>>> Wipe the surface where the foam is to be applied with acetone or denatured
>>> alcohol before application to remove any grease or wax. Be careful if
>>>  you use
>>> acetone to keep it far away from the canopy itself. Acetone will  harm the
>>> Plexiglas canopy by making a frosty spot anywhere it contacts it.  
>>> If you do
>>> happen to get a drop on the canopy and the resulting frost, you  can
>>> sand it out
>>> (LIGHTLY) with 1200 then a light buff with plastic buffing  rouge
>>> will make it
>>> go away in most cases, but it's best to not go there.  Denatured 
>>> alcohol will
>>> not harm the canopy. Neither acetone or denatured  alcohol will  harm the
>>> finish, gel coat or urethane, although I wouldn't  leave a rag soaked
>>> with acetone
>>> sitting on any painted or gel coat surface  for long because after 
>>> a while it
>>> will soften the paint or gel coat. Denatured  alcohol will not do
>>> this. Wiping
>>> the painted or gel coated surfaces with acetone  or denatured  alcohol is
>>> fine, though.
>>>
>>> You can also use this type foam to seal up the fuel access doors  and gear
>>> doors, both of which if not sealed are sources for drag because of
>>> the pressure
>>> differential between inside and outside the wing when at flying  speeds.
>>>
>>> Anyway, hope it helps!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> John  Lawton
>>> Whitwell, TN (TN89)
>>> Ximango #135
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
>>>
>> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?
>> NCID=aolcmp003000000025
>>> 48)
>>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:22:35 EST
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Chuck Cheeseman <XimangoUSA@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 
In a message dated 2/19/2008 2:10:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:

I am not  aware that my Ximango has a stall warning vane/switch


There is none.
 
Ximango USA



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.     
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:46:42 +0000
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Ted Gordon <tedjgordon@ATT.NET>
Subject:      Re: AD 2007-23-15 English text available? Ximango site inop?

Dear Bruce:

It still works for me. It takes a rather long time to download even with a high speed connection to Internet since it is about 1.7 mb long. I use Firefox as my browser.

Best
Ted

 

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
>
> I'm just getting a blank page when I try the URL for Aeromot's 
> 2007-20-15.
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2008, at 10:30 PM, Ted Gordon wrote:
>
> Dear Bruce:
>
> This URL worked for me; it brings up Aeromot's 200-20-102 Revision B 
> dated 1/23/06.
>
> <http://intranet.aeromot.com.br/internet/bs_web/SB102%20Rev.%20B.pdf>
>
>
> The new FAA AD,  2007-23-15, can be found at
>
> <http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/
> 0/753BFB527DCE73F286257399005598A0?OpenDocument&Highlight=2007-23-15>
>
> The FAA reference calls out the Aeromot 200-20-102 Revision B, as 
> follows:
>
> < Applicability
>
> < (c) This AD applies to the following gliders in the table below that:
>
>     <(1) Are certificated in any category; and
>
>     <(2) Have not incorporated the actions in their entirety of 
> Aeromot SBNo. 200-20-102,    revision A, dated April 19, 2005; or 
> Aeromot SB No. 200-20-102, revision B, dated January 23, 2006.
>
> A bit convoluted, but these URL's give the data needed I think. Any 
> other interpretations?
>
> Best
> Ted
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Bruce Schimmel" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 6:24 PM
> To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
> Subject: Re: AD 2007-23-15 English text available? Ximango site inop?
>
> > Hey, I've not been able to get into the Ximango site to get a copy 
> > of this SB in English. Anyone got a
> > copy? Send it to me directly, and I'll put it on my server and put 
> > in a link so everyone can get it.
> >
> > yrs, Bruce
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:07:09 -0600
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         David McConeghey <mcconeghey@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
In-Reply-To:  <20080219001009.sksi40o0cosg4wwc@www.email.arizona.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I believe it is on the leading edge of the left wing.

On Feb 19, 2008 1:10 AM, Hermann F. Fasel <faselh@email.arizona.edu> wrote:

> Dave,
> thanks for your help.
> I am not aware that my Ximango has a stall warning vane/switch - were
> would it
> be? I never heard anything and I have practiced stalls many times. Maybe
> you
> are on to something.
> the audio for the landing gear warning annunciator work correctly.
>
> Hermann
>
> Hermann F. Fasel
> Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
> University of Arizona
> Tucson, Arizona 85721
>
> Tel.: 520-621-2771
> Fax: 520-621-8191
>
>
> Quoting David McConeghey <mcconeghey@GMAIL.COM>:
>
> > Hermann,
> >
> > Could it be your Stall Warning or Gear Warning Audio Annunciator? Could
> it
> > be the wires to the Stall Warning are reversed so it is on when it
> should be
> > off and off when it should be on?  Is your stall Stall Warning
> vane/switch
> > bent?
> >
> > Does your audio landing gear warning annunciator work correctly?  When
> you
> > extend the spoilers with the landing gear up does it activate?  After
> > extending the gear does it become silent?
> >
> > Dave McConeghey
> >
> > On Feb 17, 2008 11:04 PM, Hermann F. Fasel <faselh@email.arizona.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> >> John,
> >>
> >> I weather-stripped the canopy following your excellent instructions.
> >> Unfortunately it did not solve the problem. The noise was exactly the
> >> same. To
> >> make sure that it was not caused by air coming through the gap between
> >> canopy
> >> and airframe, in a flight today I had a friend seal the gap all around
> the
> >> canopy from the outside - using wingtape - after the canopy was locked
> >> down
> >> prior to T/O. Again no effect on the noise. Therefore I am certain now
> >> that the noise is not caused be air coming through the canopy gap. Then
> I
> >> sealed
> >> the NACA air-scoops on the left and right outside of the cockpit, which
> >> provide
> >> fresh air into the cockpit - also no effect. I have sealed and resealed
> >> the gaps
> >> between wings and fuselage several times - also no effect. I am at a
> total
> >> loss
> >> of what is going on.
> >>
> >> Here is an updated summary of what I observed so far:
> >> There is a terribly loud (high-frequency) whistling noise in the
> cockpit
> >> which
> >> can not be tolerated even with my headset using active noise
> cancellation.
> >> The
> >> noise is much stronger on the left side of the cockpit than on the
> right
> >> side.
> >> When I put my hand on the (inside) wall of the cockpit (airframe - not
> the
> >> canopy) I can feel a high frequency vibration (the canopy does not
> >> vibrate).
> >> The wall of the right side of the cockpit does not vibrate. The noise
> >> occurs
> >> both with engine on or off (thus it is not related to engine
> vibration).
> >> It
> >> starts during takeoff (35-40KTS) and stops after landing. The noise
> (both
> >> frequency) and amplitude) is insensitive to flight speed and plane
> >> attitude
> >> (angle of attack) except when stalling the airplane (which gets me
> below
> >> the
> >> 35 KTS. The noise is the same with landing gear up or down.
> >>
> >> Have you or anybody else experienced anything like that? I am desperate
> >> because the airplane is not flyable and the mechanics I have asked also
> do
> >> not
> >> have any idea.
> >>
> >> Hermann
> >>
> >>
> >> Hermann F. Fasel
> >> Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
> >> University of Arizona
> >> Tucson, Arizona 85721
> >>
> >> Tel.: 520-621-2771
> >> Fax: 520-621-8191
> >>
> >>
> >> Quoting John Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>:
> >>
> >> > In a message dated 1/24/2008 3:51:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >> > faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:
> >> >
> >> >>>>>> Where do you buy the foam? Is it standard material  or something
> >> > special? What
> >> > kind of tape do you suggest to attach the  foam?<<<<<<
> >> >
> >> > Hello Hermann,
> >> >
> >> > We use thin, self adhesive weather-strip available at any home
> >>  improvement
> >> > store such as Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Ace Hardware has good foam,
>  too.
> >> I
> >> > particularly like the Ace Hardware brand foam because it has a thin
> >>  film of
> >> > cellulose between the adhesive and the foam that makes removal
> >> > easier. The gray
> >> > Ace stuff seems to be a bit more UV resistant than  the tan stuff
> >> > sold by Home
> >> > Depot, too.
> >> >
> >> >  Get the thinnest you can find, i.e., 3/16" or thinner, open cell.
>  1/8"
> >> > really works well, but is sometimes hard to find.  If you use
> >> > anything  thicker or
> >> > the closed cell variety, you run the risk of affecting the fit of
>  your
> >> > canopy when closed. Apply when it's warm, say 60F or above. If you
> >> > don't  get these
> >> > sorts of temps, you can heat the mating surface slightly where  the
> foam
> >> is
> >> > to be applied with a hair dryer or heat gun.
> >> >
> >> > You probably won't need the foam after temps warm up and the
>  existing
> >> closed
> >> > cell foam becomes pliable again. Just peel off the open cell  foam
> when
> >> the
> >> > temps warm up when you're done with it. Any residual adhesive  left
> >> > behind will
> >> > come off easily with acetone. Even though it's not  pretty, I would
> >> stick it
> >> > to the fuselage, opposite the closed cell foam on the  canopy rail.
> You
> >> could
> >> > stick it to the existing closed cell foam on  the canopy rail to keep
> it
> >> out
> >> > of sight, but we've found that it doesn't stick  very well to the
> closed
> >> cell
> >> > foam and usually peels off in a matter of a  few days, no matter how
> >> > much prep
> >> > you do.
> >> >
> >> > Wipe the surface where the foam is to be applied with acetone or
> >>  denatured
> >> > alcohol before application to remove any grease or wax. Be careful if
> >> >  you use
> >> > acetone to keep it far away from the canopy itself. Acetone will harm
> >>  the
> >> > Plexiglas canopy by making a frosty spot anywhere it contacts it.  If
> >> you do
> >> > happen to get a drop on the canopy and the resulting frost, you  can
> >> > sand it out
> >> > (LIGHTLY) with 1200 then a light buff with plastic buffing  rouge
> >> > will make it
> >> > go away in most cases, but it's best to not go there.  Denatured
> alcohol
> >> will
> >> > not harm the canopy. Neither acetone or denatured  alcohol will harm
> the
> >> > finish, gel coat or urethane, although I wouldn't  leave a rag soaked
> >> > with acetone
> >> > sitting on any painted or gel coat surface  for long because after a
> >> while it
> >> > will soften the paint or gel coat. Denatured  alcohol will not do
> >> > this. Wiping
> >> > the painted or gel coated surfaces with acetone  or denatured alcohol
> is
> >> > fine, though.
> >> >
> >> > You can also use this type foam to seal up the fuel access doors and
> >> gear
> >> > doors, both of which if not sealed are sources for drag because of
> >> > the pressure
> >> > differential between inside and outside the wing when at flying
> speeds.
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, hope it helps!
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > John  Lawton
> >> > Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> >> > Ximango #135
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
> Music.
> >> >
> >> (
> >>
> http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> >> > 48)
> >>
> >>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:50:50 -0500
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: AD 2007-23-15 English text available? Ximango site inop?
In-Reply-To:  <021920081146.23290.47BAC1A20000D44500005AFA22230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF02010B9D0109060B0A9B@att.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753)
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Yeah, it just started working again. thanks, B
On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:46 AM, Ted Gordon wrote:

Dear Bruce:

It still works for me. It takes a rather long time to download even 
with a high speed connection to Internet since it is about 1.7 mb 
long. I use Firefox as my browser.

Best
Ted



-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
>
> I'm just getting a blank page when I try the URL for Aeromot's
> 2007-20-15.
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2008, at 10:30 PM, Ted Gordon wrote:
>
> Dear Bruce:
>
> This URL worked for me; it brings up Aeromot's 200-20-102 Revision B
> dated 1/23/06.
>
> <http://intranet.aeromot.com.br/internet/bs_web/SB102%20Rev.%20B.pdf>
>
>
> The new FAA AD,  2007-23-15, can be found at
>
> <http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/
> 0/753BFB527DCE73F286257399005598A0?OpenDocument&Highlight=2007-23-15>
>
> The FAA reference calls out the Aeromot 200-20-102 Revision B, as
> follows:
>
> < Applicability
>
> < (c) This AD applies to the following gliders in the table below 
> that:
>
>     <(1) Are certificated in any category; and
>
>     <(2) Have not incorporated the actions in their entirety of
> Aeromot SBNo. 200-20-102,    revision A, dated April 19, 2005; or
> Aeromot SB No. 200-20-102, revision B, dated January 23, 2006.
>
> A bit convoluted, but these URL's give the data needed I think. Any
> other interpretations?
>
> Best
> Ted
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Bruce Schimmel" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 6:24 PM
> To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
> Subject: Re: AD 2007-23-15 English text available? Ximango site inop?
>
>> Hey, I've not been able to get into the Ximango site to get a copy
>> of this SB in English. Anyone got a
>> copy? Send it to me directly, and I'll put it on my server and put
>> in a link so everyone can get it.
>>
>> yrs, Bruce
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:52:57 -0500
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Edward Hauser <tedhauser@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
In-Reply-To:  <6ef836ff0802182015x48b7e7d9h498dad4e31dad623@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has your total energy probe fallen out?

> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:15:18 -0600> From: mcconeghey@GMAIL.COM> Subjec=
t: Re: Cockpit noise> To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM> > Hermann,> > Could =
it be your Stall Warning or Gear Warning Audio Annunciator? Could it> be th=
e wires to the Stall Warning are reversed so it is on when it should be> of=
f and off when it should be on? Is your stall Stall Warning vane/switch> be=
nt?> > Does your audio landing gear warning annunciator work correctly? Whe=
n you> extend the spoilers with the landing gear up does it activate? After=
> extending the gear does it become silent?> > Dave McConeghey> > On Feb 17=
, 2008 11:04 PM, Hermann F. Fasel <faselh@email.arizona.edu> wrote:> > > Jo=
hn,> >> > I weather-stripped the canopy following your excellent instructio=
ns.> > Unfortunately it did not solve the problem. The noise was exactly th=
e> > same. To> > make sure that it was not caused by air coming through the=
 gap between> > canopy> > and airframe, in a flight today I had a friend se=
al the gap all around the> > canopy from the outside - using wingtape - aft=
er the canopy was locked> > down> > prior to T/O. Again no effect on the no=
ise. Therefore I am certain now> > that the noise is not caused be air comi=
ng through the canopy gap. Then I> > sealed> > the NACA air-scoops on the l=
eft and right outside of the cockpit, which> > provide> > fresh air into th=
e cockpit - also no effect. I have sealed and resealed> > the gaps> > betwe=
en wings and fuselage several times - also no effect. I am at a total> > lo=
ss> > of what is going on.> >> > Here is an updated summary of what I obser=
ved so far:> > There is a terribly loud (high-frequency) whistling noise in=
 the cockpit> > which> > can not be tolerated even with my headset using ac=
tive noise cancellation.> > The> > noise is much stronger on the left side =
of the cockpit than on the right> > side.> > When I put my hand on the (ins=
ide) wall of the cockpit (airframe - not the> > canopy) I can feel a high f=
requency vibration (the canopy does not> > vibrate).> > The wall of the rig=
ht side of the cockpit does not vibrate. The noise> > occurs> > both with e=
ngine on or off (thus it is not related to engine vibration).> > It> > star=
ts during takeoff (35-40KTS) and stops after landing. The noise (both> > fr=
equency) and amplitude) is insensitive to flight speed and plane> > attitud=
e> > (angle of attack) except when stalling the airplane (which gets me bel=
ow> > the> > 35 KTS. The noise is the same with landing gear up or down.> >=
> > Have you or anybody else experienced anything like that? I am desperate=
> > because the airplane is not flyable and the mechanics I have asked also=
 do> > not> > have any idea.> >> > Hermann> >> >> > Hermann F. Fasel> > Aer=
ospace & Mechanical Engineering> > University of Arizona> > Tucson, Arizona=
 85721> >> > Tel.: 520-621-2771> > Fax: 520-621-8191> >> >> > Quoting John =
Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>:> >> > > In a message dated 1/24/2008 3:51:12 P=
M Eastern Standard Time,> > > faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:> > >> > >>>>=
>> Where do you buy the foam? Is it standard material or something> > > spe=
cial? What> > > kind of tape do you suggest to attach the foam?<<<<<<> > >>=
 > > Hello Hermann,> > >> > > We use thin, self adhesive weather-strip avai=
lable at any home> > improvement> > > store such as Lowe's, Home Depot, etc=
. Ace Hardware has good foam, too.> > I> > > particularly like the Ace Hard=
ware brand foam because it has a thin> > film of> > > cellulose between the=
 adhesive and the foam that makes removal> > > easier. The gray> > > Ace st=
uff seems to be a bit more UV resistant than the tan stuff> > > sold by Hom=
e> > > Depot, too.> > >> > > Get the thinnest you can find, i.e., 3/16" or =
thinner, open cell. 1/8"> > > really works well, but is sometimes hard to f=
ind. If you use> > > anything thicker or> > > the closed cell variety, you =
run the risk of affecting the fit of your> > > canopy when closed. Apply wh=
en it's warm, say 60F or above. If you> > > don't get these> > > sorts of t=
emps, you can heat the mating surface slightly where the foam> > is> > > to=
 be applied with a hair dryer or heat gun.> > >> > > You probably won't nee=
d the foam after temps warm up and the existing> > closed> > > cell foam be=
comes pliable again. Just peel off the open cell foam when> > the> > > temp=
s warm up when you're done with it. Any residual adhesive left> > > behind =
will> > > come off easily with acetone. Even though it's not pretty, I woul=
d> > stick it> > > to the fuselage, opposite the closed cell foam on the ca=
nopy rail. You> > could> > > stick it to the existing closed cell foam on t=
he canopy rail to keep it> > out> > > of sight, but we've found that it doe=
sn't stick very well to the closed> > cell> > > foam and usually peels off =
in a matter of a few days, no matter how> > > much prep> > > you do.> > >> =
> > Wipe the surface where the foam is to be applied with acetone or> > den=
atured> > > alcohol before application to remove any grease or wax. Be care=
ful if> > > you use> > > acetone to keep it far away from the canopy itself=
. Acetone will harm> > the> > > Plexiglas canopy by making a frosty spot an=
ywhere it contacts it. If> > you do> > > happen to get a drop on the canopy=
 and the resulting frost, you can> > > sand it out> > > (LIGHTLY) with 1200=
 then a light buff with plastic buffing rouge> > > will make it> > > go awa=
y in most cases, but it's best to not go there. Denatured alcohol> > will> =
> > not harm the canopy. Neither acetone or denatured alcohol will harm the=
> > > finish, gel coat or urethane, although I wouldn't leave a rag soaked>=
 > > with acetone> > > sitting on any painted or gel coat surface for long =
because after a> > while it> > > will soften the paint or gel coat. Denatur=
ed alcohol will not do> > > this. Wiping> > > the painted or gel coated sur=
faces with acetone or denatured alcohol is> > > fine, though.> > >> > > You=
 can also use this type foam to seal up the fuel access doors and> > gear> =
> > doors, both of which if not sealed are sources for drag because of> > >=
 the pressure> > > differential between inside and outside the wing when at=
 flying speeds.> > >> > > Anyway, hope it helps!> > >> > > Regards,> > >> >=
 > John Lawton> > > Whitwell, TN (TN89)> > > Ximango #135> > >> > >> > >> >=
 > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.> =
> >> > (> > http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=
=3Daolcmp003000000025> > > 48)> >> >> =
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:07:46 +1000
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         paul harrington <energy@WHITSUNDAY.NET.AU>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
In-Reply-To:  <d5d.1c87f6df.34ebf9db@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I do not have a stall warning on my aircraft. Does anybody else?  I am
interested to hear of anybody who has stalled or spun the aircraft.  I
have always taken notice of the placard and avoided such manoeuvres, but
frustrated that these are not permitted.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
Behalf Of Chuck Cheeseman
Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2008 7:23 PM
To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: Re: Cockpit noise

 
In a message dated 2/19/2008 2:10:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:

I am not  aware that my Ximango has a stall warning vane/switch


There is none.
 
Ximango USA



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campo
s-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:14:04 -0500
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
Subject:      Stall warning
In-Reply-To:  <000001c8734c$3e435d10$3855a40a@acer6dff78d94b>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753)
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I frankly don't see the point of such a device in a glider. Most of 
the time, it would be screaming...
On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:07 PM, paul harrington wrote:

I do not have a stall warning on my aircraft. Does anybody else?  I am
interested to hear of anybody who has stalled or spun the aircraft.  I
have always taken notice of the placard and avoided such manoeuvres, but
frustrated that these are not permitted.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
Behalf Of Chuck Cheeseman
Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2008 7:23 PM
To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: Re: Cockpit noise


In a message dated 2/19/2008 2:10:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:

I am not  aware that my Ximango has a stall warning vane/switch


There is none.

Ximango USA



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campo
s-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:14:41 -0700
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Jim <jim.durango@JIMTEC.NET>
Subject:      Re: Cockpit noise
MIME-Version: 1.0
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              reply-type=original
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Paul and All,

FYI:  When the USAF Academy was evaluating which motorglider they wanted to
buy they were very mindful of the six who had died in recent power plane
spin accidents (three instructors, three students).  I flew with the Edwards
test pilots who put my Ximango into spins from every entry they could thiink
up.  It winds up quickly with the nose down very steeply but in every case
recovery was easy and honest using normal proceedures.  Neutral to slightly
forward stick, neutral ailerons, opposite full rudder until rotation stopped
and then a gentle straight ahead pull-out.  I also had a prospective buyer
put another of my birds into an accidental spin on a demo flight with the
same result.  None of the cases exceeded the redline or g limits.

Stalls are benign unless you force it into a very deep one in which case you
may well be starting into a spin.  There is nothing wrong with doing
stalls - enter them gently and the low wind noise slight burble will tell
you when you are approaching the stall.  I like pulling the nose up about 20
degrees above the horizon and just hold it there.   Hope this is helpful.
Jim McCann

>I do not have a stall warning on my aircraft. Does anybody else?  I am
> interested to hear of anybody who has stalled or spun the aircraft.  I
> have always taken notice of the placard and avoided such manoeuvres, but
> frustrated that these are not permitted.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:07:42 -0800
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Finbar Sheehy <finbarsheehy@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Stall warning
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

They're fitted on Taifuns. When you switch the Master Switch to the Glide position it disables the stall warning. Thus it's only active when operating in powered mode, when one wouldn't normally fly close to the stall.

----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:14:04 PM
Subject: Stall warning

I frankly don't see the point of such a device in a glider. Most of 
the time, it would be screaming...
On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:07 PM, paul harrington wrote:

I do not have a stall warning on my aircraft. Does anybody else?  I am
interested to hear of anybody who has stalled or spun the aircraft.  I
have always taken notice of the placard and avoided such manoeuvres, but
frustrated that these are not permitted.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
Behalf Of Chuck Cheeseman
Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2008 7:23 PM
To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: Re: Cockpit noise


In a message dated 2/19/2008 2:10:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:

I am not  aware that my Ximango has a stall warning vane/switch


There is none.

Ximango USA