Gear collapse -Jun 2005

It was actually very un-dramatic. Gear down and locked onto final and
landing long because there was a glider behind me. Touch down was normal,
but then the aircraft kept sinking and the "Oh no" sensation kicked in.

==============================================

Date:         Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:44:59 -0400
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
Subject:      gear collapse
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1)
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John --

I'm so sorry to hear about your gear collapsing. If it's any 
consolation, you're not alone.

For those of us who haven't, yet, experienced this pain -- and who 
wish to avoid it, if possible -- could you describe the circumstances?

Many thanks.

Bruce
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:30:41 +0800
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         William Cooper <bnlcoops@WESTNET.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
In-Reply-To:  <0DF7B610-8453-4F44-8744-230F90B70426@schimmel.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Bruce,

It was actually very un-dramatic. Gear down and locked onto final and
landing long because there was a glider behind me. Touch down was normal,
but then the aircraft kept sinking and the "Oh no" sensation kicked in. Then
lots of scraping noises, but the plane ran straight. The only moment of
panic was the cockpit filling with smoke, which made for a prompt exit from
me and the club CFI. Turned out it was just fiberglass dust coming into the
cabin space.

People on the ground said they saw one wheel assembly flopping side to side.
Fortunately though both wheels collapsed thus preventing what could have
been a much more serious accident.

I was going to post some pictures but if I attach them then the e-mail gets
bounced back.

Bill Cooper

-----Original Message-----
From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
Sent: Monday, 16 June 2008 2:45 AM
To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: gear collapse

John --

I'm so sorry to hear about your gear collapsing. If it's any 
consolation, you're not alone.

For those of us who haven't, yet, experienced this pain -- and who 
wish to avoid it, if possible -- could you describe the circumstances?

Many thanks.

Bruce


--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 4366 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:44:18 -0400
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
In-Reply-To:  <002301c8d075$f4938a00$0201010a@homeoffice>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
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Bill,

I know of two other gear-collapse incidents, and both happened on 
rough grass.

But from your description, this sounds like a normal landing.

So why did your gear collapse? What's to be learned from this?

yrs, B







On Jun 17, 2008, at 8:30 AM, William Cooper wrote:

Hi Bruce,

It was actually very un-dramatic. Gear down and locked onto final and
landing long because there was a glider behind me. Touch down was 
normal,
but then the aircraft kept sinking and the "Oh no" sensation kicked 
in. Then
lots of scraping noises, but the plane ran straight. The only moment of
panic was the cockpit filling with smoke, which made for a prompt 
exit from
me and the club CFI. Turned out it was just fiberglass dust coming 
into the
cabin space.

People on the ground said they saw one wheel assembly flopping side 
to side.
Fortunately though both wheels collapsed thus preventing what could have
been a much more serious accident.

I was going to post some pictures but if I attach them then the e-
mail gets
bounced back.

Bill Cooper

-----Original Message-----
From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
Sent: Monday, 16 June 2008 2:45 AM
To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: gear collapse

John --

I'm so sorry to hear about your gear collapsing. If it's any
consolation, you're not alone.

For those of us who haven't, yet, experienced this pain -- and who
wish to avoid it, if possible -- could you describe the circumstances?

Many thanks.

Bruce


--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 4366 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:02:39 +0800
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         William Cooper <bnlcoops@WESTNET.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
In-Reply-To:  <1D32B153-7343-4271-B55A-6D9B50055E5F@schimmel.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Bruce,

When I have a definitive report I will let you know.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2008 8:44 PM
To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: Re: gear collapse

Bill,

I know of two other gear-collapse incidents, and both happened on 
rough grass.

But from your description, this sounds like a normal landing.

So why did your gear collapse? What's to be learned from this?

yrs, B







On Jun 17, 2008, at 8:30 AM, William Cooper wrote:

Hi Bruce,

It was actually very un-dramatic. Gear down and locked onto final and
landing long because there was a glider behind me. Touch down was 
normal,
but then the aircraft kept sinking and the "Oh no" sensation kicked 
in. Then
lots of scraping noises, but the plane ran straight. The only moment of
panic was the cockpit filling with smoke, which made for a prompt 
exit from
me and the club CFI. Turned out it was just fiberglass dust coming 
into the
cabin space.

People on the ground said they saw one wheel assembly flopping side 
to side.
Fortunately though both wheels collapsed thus preventing what could have
been a much more serious accident.

I was going to post some pictures but if I attach them then the e-
mail gets
bounced back.

Bill Cooper

-----Original Message-----
From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
Sent: Monday, 16 June 2008 2:45 AM
To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: gear collapse

John --

I'm so sorry to hear about your gear collapsing. If it's any
consolation, you're not alone.

For those of us who haven't, yet, experienced this pain -- and who
wish to avoid it, if possible -- could you describe the circumstances?

Many thanks.

Bruce


--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 4366 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len


--
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:27:21 -0600
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         cotton@ATMOS.COLOSTATE.EDU
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
In-Reply-To:  <003a01c8d082$cdff84e0$0201010a@homeoffice>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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When Denis Michaud checked me out on the Ximango he worked me real hard t=
o
not land with any sideways drift as he had a student take out the gear
with a bit of sideways drift. That is a weakness of the Ximango. Bill

> Hi Bruce,
>
> When I have a definitive report I will let you know.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] O=
n
> Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
> Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2008 8:44 PM
> To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Subject: Re: gear collapse
>
> Bill,
>
> I know of two other gear-collapse incidents, and both happened on
> rough grass.
>
> But from your description, this sounds like a normal landing.
>
> So why did your gear collapse? What's to be learned from this?
>
> yrs, B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2008, at 8:30 AM, William Cooper wrote:
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> It was actually very un-dramatic. Gear down and locked onto final and
> landing long because there was a glider behind me. Touch down was
> normal,
> but then the aircraft kept sinking and the "Oh no" sensation kicked
> in. Then
> lots of scraping noises, but the plane ran straight. The only moment of
> panic was the cockpit filling with smoke, which made for a prompt
> exit from
> me and the club CFI. Turned out it was just fiberglass dust coming
> into the
> cabin space.
>
> People on the ground said they saw one wheel assembly flopping side
> to side.
> Fortunately though both wheels collapsed thus preventing what could hav=
e
> been a much more serious accident.
>
> I was going to post some pictures but if I attach them then the e-
> mail gets
> bounced back.
>
> Bill Cooper
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] O=
n
> Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
> Sent: Monday, 16 June 2008 2:45 AM
> To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Subject: gear collapse
>
> John --
>
> I'm so sorry to hear about your gear collapsing. If it's any
> consolation, you're not alone.
>
> For those of us who haven't, yet, experienced this pain -- and who
> wish to avoid it, if possible -- could you describe the circumstances?
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
> It has removed 4366 spam emails to date.
> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
> It has removed 4366 spam emails to date.
> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:58:51 +0200
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Ben & Jane Behm <benbehm@TELKOMSA.NET>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi

I think this is a major problem with the design!

I remind you all of my accident in 2003 when the left hand side collapsed on
take-off! New plane not 6 months old.

Any further info, I shall gladly provide it.

Regards

Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce SCHIMMEL" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: gear collapse


> Bill,
>
> I know of two other gear-collapse incidents, and both happened on  rough
> grass.
>
> But from your description, this sounds like a normal landing.
>
> So why did your gear collapse? What's to be learned from this?
>
> yrs, B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2008, at 8:30 AM, William Cooper wrote:
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> It was actually very un-dramatic. Gear down and locked onto final and
> landing long because there was a glider behind me. Touch down was  normal,
> but then the aircraft kept sinking and the "Oh no" sensation kicked  in.
> Then
> lots of scraping noises, but the plane ran straight. The only moment of
> panic was the cockpit filling with smoke, which made for a prompt  exit
> from
> me and the club CFI. Turned out it was just fiberglass dust coming  into
> the
> cabin space.
>
> People on the ground said they saw one wheel assembly flopping side  to
> side.
> Fortunately though both wheels collapsed thus preventing what could have
> been a much more serious accident.
>
> I was going to post some pictures but if I attach them then the e- mail
> gets
> bounced back.
>
> Bill Cooper
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
> Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
> Sent: Monday, 16 June 2008 2:45 AM
> To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Subject: gear collapse
>
> John --
>
> I'm so sorry to hear about your gear collapsing. If it's any
> consolation, you're not alone.
>
> For those of us who haven't, yet, experienced this pain -- and who
> wish to avoid it, if possible -- could you describe the circumstances?
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
> It has removed 4366 spam emails to date.
> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:41:31 -0400
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
In-Reply-To:  <003401c8d0ac$2f28bb50$0f00000a@TOSH>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

OK. What is the current count of gear collapses?

Two off-field landing collapses I know.
1 from Ben and Jane Behm on take off, hard surface.
1 from Bill Cooper, landing on hard surface.
1 unconfirmed by a student of Denis Michaud, landing?

That's a current total of 5 out of ??? (How many Ximangos are 
currently in the air? 165?)

Any other collapses to be reported?

Is there a patten here? Do they all collapse the same way?

Are sideloads the culprit? Frontloads? (Any loads?)

Should the landing gear be checked or adjusted?

I don't know of any SBs. Has Chuck or Aeromot offered suggestions to 
avoid this issue?

B




On Jun 17, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Ben & Jane Behm wrote:

Hi

I think this is a major problem with the design!

I remind you all of my accident in 2003 when the left hand side 
collapsed on take-off! New plane not 6 months old.

Any further info, I shall gladly provide it.

Regards

Ben
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce SCHIMMEL" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: gear collapse


> Bill,
>
> I know of two other gear-collapse incidents, and both happened on  
> rough grass.
>
> But from your description, this sounds like a normal landing.
>
> So why did your gear collapse? What's to be learned from this?
>
> yrs, B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2008, at 8:30 AM, William Cooper wrote:
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> It was actually very un-dramatic. Gear down and locked onto final and
> landing long because there was a glider behind me. Touch down was  
> normal,
> but then the aircraft kept sinking and the "Oh no" sensation 
> kicked  in. Then
> lots of scraping noises, but the plane ran straight. The only 
> moment of
> panic was the cockpit filling with smoke, which made for a prompt  
> exit from
> me and the club CFI. Turned out it was just fiberglass dust coming  
> into the
> cabin space.
>
> People on the ground said they saw one wheel assembly flopping 
> side  to side.
> Fortunately though both wheels collapsed thus preventing what could 
> have
> been a much more serious accident.
>
> I was going to post some pictures but if I attach them then the e- 
> mail gets
> bounced back.
>
> Bill Cooper
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG) 
> [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
> Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
> Sent: Monday, 16 June 2008 2:45 AM
> To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Subject: gear collapse
>
> John --
>
> I'm so sorry to hear about your gear collapsing. If it's any
> consolation, you're not alone.
>
> For those of us who haven't, yet, experienced this pain -- and who
> wish to avoid it, if possible -- could you describe the circumstances?
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
> It has removed 4366 spam emails to date.
> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:03:45 +0200
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Ben & Jane Behm <benbehm@TELKOMSA.NET>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Bruce

Sorry, but one gear collapse is to many, someone is going to get hurt-killed
(God forbid). This now equates to +- 3% of aircraft and rising.

This is a very heavy plane with a rather flimsy under gear

No extra loads, 2 persons of almost equal weight, calm winds (concerning my
accident)

Regards

Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce SCHIMMEL" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: gear collapse


> OK. What is the current count of gear collapses?
>
> Two off-field landing collapses I know.
> 1 from Ben and Jane Behm on take off, hard surface.
> 1 from Bill Cooper, landing on hard surface.
> 1 unconfirmed by a student of Denis Michaud, landing?
>
> That's a current total of 5 out of ??? (How many Ximangos are  currently
> in the air? 165?)
>
> Any other collapses to be reported?
>
> Is there a patten here? Do they all collapse the same way?
>
> Are sideloads the culprit? Frontloads? (Any loads?)
>
> Should the landing gear be checked or adjusted?
>
> I don't know of any SBs. Has Chuck or Aeromot offered suggestions to
> avoid this issue?
>
> B
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Ben & Jane Behm wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I think this is a major problem with the design!
>
> I remind you all of my accident in 2003 when the left hand side  collapsed
> on take-off! New plane not 6 months old.
>
> Any further info, I shall gladly provide it.
>
> Regards
>
> Ben
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce SCHIMMEL" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
> To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:44 PM
> Subject: Re: gear collapse
>
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I know of two other gear-collapse incidents, and both happened on   rough
>> grass.
>>
>> But from your description, this sounds like a normal landing.
>>
>> So why did your gear collapse? What's to be learned from this?
>>
>> yrs, B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2008, at 8:30 AM, William Cooper wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>> It was actually very un-dramatic. Gear down and locked onto final and
>> landing long because there was a glider behind me. Touch down was
>> normal,
>> but then the aircraft kept sinking and the "Oh no" sensation  kicked  in.
>> Then
>> lots of scraping noises, but the plane ran straight. The only  moment of
>> panic was the cockpit filling with smoke, which made for a prompt   exit
>> from
>> me and the club CFI. Turned out it was just fiberglass dust coming   into
>> the
>> cabin space.
>>
>> People on the ground said they saw one wheel assembly flopping  side  to
>> side.
>> Fortunately though both wheels collapsed thus preventing what could  have
>> been a much more serious accident.
>>
>> I was going to post some pictures but if I attach them then the e-  mail
>> gets
>> bounced back.
>>
>> Bill Cooper
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG)  [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
>> Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
>> Sent: Monday, 16 June 2008 2:45 AM
>> To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
>> Subject: gear collapse
>>
>> John --
>>
>> I'm so sorry to hear about your gear collapsing. If it's any
>> consolation, you're not alone.
>>
>> For those of us who haven't, yet, experienced this pain -- and who
>> wish to avoid it, if possible -- could you describe the circumstances?
>>
>> Many thanks.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>> --
>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
>> It has removed 4366 spam emails to date.
>> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:32:48 -0700
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Hermann F. Fasel" <faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
Comments: To: Ben & Jane Behm <benbehm@TELKOMSA.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <00b901c8d100$af8763b0$0f00000a@TOSH>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In the various gear collapsing accidents mentioned, were the parts of the
landing gear assembly identified which failed (were bent or broke). Without
failure of a specific part, the gear cannot collapse if the gear is assembled
correctly.

Hermann


Hermann F. Fasel
Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
University of Arizona
Tucson, Arizona 85721

Tel.: 520-621-2771
Fax: 520-621-8191


Quoting Ben & Jane Behm <benbehm@TELKOMSA.NET>:

> Hi Bruce
>
> Sorry, but one gear collapse is to many, someone is going to get hurt-killed
> (God forbid). This now equates to +- 3% of aircraft and rising.
>
> This is a very heavy plane with a rather flimsy under gear
>
> No extra loads, 2 persons of almost equal weight, calm winds (concerning my
> accident)
>
> Regards
>
> Ben
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce SCHIMMEL" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
> To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:41 PM
> Subject: Re: gear collapse
>
>
>> OK. What is the current count of gear collapses?
>>
>> Two off-field landing collapses I know.
>> 1 from Ben and Jane Behm on take off, hard surface.
>> 1 from Bill Cooper, landing on hard surface.
>> 1 unconfirmed by a student of Denis Michaud, landing?
>>
>> That's a current total of 5 out of ??? (How many Ximangos are 
>> currently in the air? 165?)
>>
>> Any other collapses to be reported?
>>
>> Is there a patten here? Do they all collapse the same way?
>>
>> Are sideloads the culprit? Frontloads? (Any loads?)
>>
>> Should the landing gear be checked or adjusted?
>>
>> I don't know of any SBs. Has Chuck or Aeromot offered suggestions to
>> avoid this issue?
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Ben & Jane Behm wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I think this is a major problem with the design!
>>
>> I remind you all of my accident in 2003 when the left hand side 
>> collapsed on take-off! New plane not 6 months old.
>>
>> Any further info, I shall gladly provide it.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Ben
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce SCHIMMEL" <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
>> To: <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: gear collapse
>>
>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> I know of two other gear-collapse incidents, and both happened on  
>>> rough grass.
>>>
>>> But from your description, this sounds like a normal landing.
>>>
>>> So why did your gear collapse? What's to be learned from this?
>>>
>>> yrs, B
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 17, 2008, at 8:30 AM, William Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Bruce,
>>>
>>> It was actually very un-dramatic. Gear down and locked onto final and
>>> landing long because there was a glider behind me. Touch down was normal,
>>> but then the aircraft kept sinking and the "Oh no" sensation 
>>> kicked  in. Then
>>> lots of scraping noises, but the plane ran straight. The only  moment of
>>> panic was the cockpit filling with smoke, which made for a prompt  
>>> exit from
>>> me and the club CFI. Turned out it was just fiberglass dust coming 
>>>  into the
>>> cabin space.
>>>
>>> People on the ground said they saw one wheel assembly flopping 
>>> side  to side.
>>> Fortunately though both wheels collapsed thus preventing what could  have
>>> been a much more serious accident.
>>>
>>> I was going to post some pictures but if I attach them then the e- 
>>> mail gets
>>> bounced back.
>>>
>>> Bill Cooper
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ximango Owners Group (XOG)  [mailto:XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On
>>> Behalf Of Bruce SCHIMMEL
>>> Sent: Monday, 16 June 2008 2:45 AM
>>> To: XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
>>> Subject: gear collapse
>>>
>>> John --
>>>
>>> I'm so sorry to hear about your gear collapsing. If it's any
>>> consolation, you're not alone.
>>>
>>> For those of us who haven't, yet, experienced this pain -- and who
>>> wish to avoid it, if possible -- could you describe the circumstances?
>>>
>>> Many thanks.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>> -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
>>> It has removed 4366 spam emails to date.
>>> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:40:27 EDT
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         John Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 6/18/2008 4:33:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:

Without
failure of a specific part, the gear cannot collapse if the  gear is assembled
correctly.
 
Greetings all,
 
Good point, Hermann.
 
After spending many hours fiddling with the alignment of my gear  doors, and
quite likely well over 100 gear cycles during that process, the  landing gear
on the Ximango appears quite robust when compared to other  aircraft we've
serviced. In fact, compared to other aircraft we've serviced, the  Ximango
appears to be very robustly built on all levels.
 
There is adjustment on the "over center" locking arm mechanism at the gear 
leg that locks the gear down. I am referencing the diagonal, two piece  arm
that is flat steel which goes from the retract yoke to the gear leg  itself.
 
 Is it possible that the gear collapses experienced thus far were  caused by
improperly adjusted locking mechanisms? If you remove the center  console,
you'll see that there is also another locking mechanism inside on the  gear
retract handle, although I believe it is secondary to the locking arm  at the gear
leg. Absent something in the retract assembly completely failing, I  don't see
how the gear could collapse unless it isn't adjusted properly.
 
Is there an Aeromot Service Bulletin that covers proper adjustment of  the
landing gear? Since the adjustment in the locking mechanism at the gear leg 
uses a simple bolt and a plain locking nut, it is possible through use  and/or
vibration that this locking bolt/nut  arrangement could loosen up, throw off the
adjustment and lead to a gear  collapse. It is also possible that normal wear
on the bolt head of this  adjustment point could throw off the locking
mechanism and lead to a gear  collapse.  The alignment of this locking mechanism is
something  that should probably be checked at least at every annual condition
inspection,  if not periodically during normal preflight inspection. I doubt
the average  A&P would bother checking this unless there are specific factory 
instructions to do so because the A&P wouldn't know what was right and  what
was wrong.
 
I would imagine that there is a measurement that could be made to insure 
that the locking arm "over centers" the correct amount. Perhaps this could  be
accomplished by laying a straight edge over the locking arm and measuring the 
distance from the straight edge to the center of the locking arm? This distance
 on mine appears to be about 5/16". My gear legs also tilt inwards slightly.
This  is likely because of the adjustment on the locking mechanism.
 
I don't think Aeromot is treading any new ground here on this gear design. 
It appears to operate very similar to other retract mechanisms on other 
aircraft I've seen.
 
Regards,
 
John  Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Ximango #135



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:05:43 -0400
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Bruce SCHIMMEL <bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse, over center gap
In-Reply-To:  <c0f.2c339223.358a4e2b@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1)
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John,

Thank you so much for that really clear explanation. The proper 
adjustment to the bolt on the gear-locking arm -- that diagonal, two-
piece flat steel -- would seem to be critical.

I understand that if you hold a ruler across it, you get an "over 
center" measurement of 5/16".

I'll measure my "gap" soon, and let everyone know soon. I'll be 
interested to hear about others.

Does Aeromot or XimangoUSA specify an optimal gap?

Related to this gap would be the angle that the wheels tilt inward. 
They look like this: o\  /o .

I just wonder if that angle is also important?

yrs, B



On Jun 18, 2008, at 7:40 AM, John Lawton wrote:

In a message dated 6/18/2008 4:33:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:

Without
failure of a specific part, the gear cannot collapse if the  gear is 
assembled
correctly.

Greetings all,

Good point, Hermann.

After spending many hours fiddling with the alignment of my gear  
doors, and
quite likely well over 100 gear cycles during that process, the  
landing gear
on the Ximango appears quite robust when compared to other  aircraft 
we've
serviced. In fact, compared to other aircraft we've serviced, the  
Ximango
appears to be very robustly built on all levels.

There is adjustment on the "over center" locking arm mechanism at the 
gear
leg that locks the gear down. I am referencing the diagonal, two 
piece  arm
that is flat steel which goes from the retract yoke to the gear leg  
itself.

  Is it possible that the gear collapses experienced thus far were  
caused by
improperly adjusted locking mechanisms? If you remove the center  
console,
you'll see that there is also another locking mechanism inside on 
the  gear
retract handle, although I believe it is secondary to the locking 
arm  at the gear
leg. Absent something in the retract assembly completely failing, I  
don't see
how the gear could collapse unless it isn't adjusted properly.

Is there an Aeromot Service Bulletin that covers proper adjustment 
of  the
landing gear? Since the adjustment in the locking mechanism at the 
gear leg
uses a simple bolt and a plain locking nut, it is possible through 
use  and/or
vibration that this locking bolt/nut  arrangement could loosen up, 
throw off the
adjustment and lead to a gear  collapse. It is also possible that 
normal wear
on the bolt head of this  adjustment point could throw off the locking
mechanism and lead to a gear  collapse.  The alignment of this 
locking mechanism is
something  that should probably be checked at least at every annual 
condition
inspection,  if not periodically during normal preflight inspection. 
I doubt
the average  A&P would bother checking this unless there are specific 
factory
instructions to do so because the A&P wouldn't know what was right 
and  what
was wrong.

I would imagine that there is a measurement that could be made to insure
that the locking arm "over centers" the correct amount. Perhaps this 
could  be
accomplished by laying a straight edge over the locking arm and 
measuring the
distance from the straight edge to the center of the locking arm? 
This distance
  on mine appears to be about 5/16". My gear legs also tilt inwards 
slightly.
This  is likely because of the adjustment on the locking mechanism.

I don't think Aeromot is treading any new ground here on this gear 
design.
It appears to operate very similar to other retract mechanisms on other
aircraft I've seen.

Regards,

John  Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Ximango #135



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?
ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:04:45 EDT
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         John Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse, over center gap
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 6/18/2008 8:05:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
bruce@SCHIMMEL.COM writes:

I  understand that if you hold a ruler across it, you get an "over  
center" measurement of 5/16".
 
Hey Bruce,
 
Yes, that's what I'm referring to.  I compared mine back in December  to make
sure they were similar. As I recall it was about 5/16" gap between the 
straight edge and the locking arm when holding the straight edge across the top  of
the locking arm. I'll measure mine today with my caliper before I fly,  get a
more precise measurement and report back later.
 
I believe the tilt in the main gear legs is a direct result of  the
adjustment of the locking arm. Another way to measure the proper locking arm 
adjustment might be to put an angle finder on the strut and measure the  departure of
the strut from vertical (plumb). Angle finders can be sourced  at most any home
improvement store. Usually, they have a magnetic strip on one  side that
holds them in place while the measurement is taken. A digital level  could also be
used for this measurement, although I would prefer a mechanical  device for
checking this angle because, in my experience, even the  pricey digital levels
are nowhere near as accurate as a mechanical level. I  found that out the hard
way when I was building my Europa setting the angle of  incidence on the
wings.
 
Regards,
 
John  Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Ximango #135



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:19:45 -0700
Reply-To:     "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       "Ximango Owners Group (XOG)" <XIMANGO@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         "Hermann F. Fasel" <faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: gear collapse
Comments: To: John Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <c0f.2c339223.358a4e2b@aol.com>
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So the question still is, if there were any broken or bent parts in the 3 (?)
gear collapsing incidents that were mentioned in the emails. Answers to that
questions would be most helpful. If none of the parts failed, I suspect that
the "over center" locking was not adjusted properly.

Hermann



Hermann F. Fasel
Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
University of Arizona
Tucson, Arizona 85721

Tel.: 520-621-2771
Fax: 520-621-8191


Quoting John Lawton <Thrmlseekr@AOL.COM>:

> In a message dated 6/18/2008 4:33:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> faselh@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU writes:
>
> Without
> failure of a specific part, the gear cannot collapse if the  gear is
> assembled
> correctly.
>
> Greetings all,
>
> Good point, Hermann.
>
> After spending many hours fiddling with the alignment of my gear  doors, and
> quite likely well over 100 gear cycles during that process, the  landing gear
> on the Ximango appears quite robust when compared to other  aircraft we've
> serviced. In fact, compared to other aircraft we've serviced, the  Ximango
> appears to be very robustly built on all levels.
>
> There is adjustment on the "over center" locking arm mechanism at the gear
> leg that locks the gear down. I am referencing the diagonal, two piece  arm
> that is flat steel which goes from the retract yoke to the gear leg  itself.
>
>  Is it possible that the gear collapses experienced thus far were  caused by
> improperly adjusted locking mechanisms? If you remove the center  console,
> you'll see that there is also another locking mechanism inside on the  gear
> retract handle, although I believe it is secondary to the locking arm
>  at the gear
> leg. Absent something in the retract assembly completely failing, I 
> don't see
> how the gear could collapse unless it isn't adjusted properly.
>
> Is there an Aeromot Service Bulletin that covers proper adjustment of  the
> landing gear? Since the adjustment in the locking mechanism at the gear leg
> uses a simple bolt and a plain locking nut, it is possible through
> use  and/or
> vibration that this locking bolt/nut  arrangement could loosen up,
> throw off the
> adjustment and lead to a gear  collapse. It is also possible that normal wear
> on the bolt head of this  adjustment point could throw off the locking
> mechanism and lead to a gear  collapse.  The alignment of this
> locking mechanism is
> something  that should probably be checked at least at every annual condition
> inspection,  if not periodically during normal preflight inspection. I doubt
> the average  A&P would bother checking this unless there are specific factory
> instructions to do so because the A&P wouldn't know what was right and  what
> was wrong.
>
> I would imagine that there is a measurement that could be made to insure
> that the locking arm "over centers" the correct amount. Perhaps this
> could  be
> accomplished by laying a straight edge over the locking arm and measuring the
> distance from the straight edge to the center of the locking arm?
> This distance
>  on mine appears to be about 5/16". My gear legs also tilt inwards slightly.
> This  is likely because of the adjustment on the locking mechanism.
>
> I don't think Aeromot is treading any new ground here on this gear design.
> It appears to operate very similar to other retract mechanisms on other
> aircraft I've seen.
>
> Regards,
>
> John  Lawton
> Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> Ximango #135
>
>