Flying with the "wrong" hands from the left seat

[No longer active on TMGA]

I've flown gliders for 35 years, always using the right hand on the stick and the left hand for the spoilers and flaps. How hard is it to fly from the left seat in the Phoenix, which it seems like everyone does, where the flaps and spoilers are on the right side of the pilot?

Is there a specific reason for making the left seat the primary seat?

[Steve Sliwa]

I hope it's OK for a Ximango driver to respond.

I like you considered this a major obstacle. In fact, I remember the first time I took a demo ride in a Twin Star I asked the CFI to fly in the left seat so I could be comfortable flying with the right hand on the joystick.

However, we decided to buy a Cirrus with a left hand side stick controller. It took about 1 flight to get used to.

Shortly thereafter I bought my Ximango. I noticed the USAFA set up their birds with the right seat being the primary. I had pretty much expected to do the same. However, after flying the Ximango and I ultimately decided I was more comfortable in the left seat. I still soar right-handed most of the time, but am comfortable doing the landings with the left hand. One motivation for me staying in the left seat, though, is that the landing gear on the Ximango requires some diligent muscle to operate. I am right-handed and it goes quite easily with the right hand. I confess that I sometimes need more than one attempt with the left hand to lock it up and to unlock it. Perhaps if I did more push ups. :-)

In any case, using the wrong hand has evolved into a non-issue for me.

[No longer active on TMGA]

I was hoping it was easier than it appeared. I'll probably stick with the "left seat" convention for my Phoenix, I think. It will make the passenger seat "user-friendly" for other glider pilots, nearly all of whom fly gliders with left spoiler/flap and right stick. My favorite circling direction is right, and flying from the left seat might give the best lookout while in a thermal with other gliders. True?

At least I won't need a regimen of push ups to operate the Phoenix gear handle (and I'll never forget to extend it, either).

[Randy Roth]

I'd like to 2nd Steve's thoughts on the, "wrong", hand issue. Most people take only a flight or two in order to transition to flying with the left hand and operating most other things with the right hand. Im my experience, having flown many type of aircraft, it seems that looking outside the aircraft and making it go where it needs to go without thinking about it comes quickly to an experienced pilot after just a short time in either seat.

Safe flights to all!

[kd6veb]

Hi Eric

It come absolutely naturally to switch hands on the stick. Also you will probably find that when thermalling in the future with the Phoenix you will have to look at your hands to figure out which one is on the stick.

I may be wrong but I don't believe there is a designated PIC seat for the Phoenix. Either left or right works well with controls as they are.

Dave

I've flown gliders for 35 years, always using the right hand on the stick and the left hand for the spoilers and flaps. How hard is it to fly from the left seat in the Phoenix, which it seems like everyone does, where the flaps and spoilers are on the right side of the pilot?

Is there a specific reason for making the left seat the primary seat?

[Dave]

Gents,

I'm about to order a new Phoenix and am a long time glider (Ventus B16.6) driver with the conventional left hand spoiler arrangement. Has anyone thought of having the wheel brake control on the right seat to obviate the whole issue?

Dave G.

[No longer active on TMGA]

Dave, I've thought of it, and may still do that. I won't have to make that decision until mine goes into production, which will be several months from now. By then, I hope to have flown with other owners enough to know what I really want. You can do the same - it's probably 6 to 8 months from your order until they begin production on it. As far as I know, most decisions can be deferred till then, but the Jim Lee, the dealer, can tell you for sure.

Get your deposit in so you have a delivery position, and then work on the details. There are plenty, I'm finding out, with it's dual use as a glider and an airplane, and I have little experience flying airplanes.

[Dave]

Eric, The deposit went in tonight. Thanks for the reply.

Dave

[Jim Lee]

The left seat of the Phoenix is the primary seat because the vast majority of aircraft do it that way. We have not encountered any trouble training pilots to fly with the left hand even though they were used to right hand flying. It is an easy progression. When turning towards your seat (left turn from left seat) you can see down better than from the other seat. However this is not enough of a reason to turn opposite the direction of other gliders. Visibility is good when turning either direction from either seat. Making the right seat the primary seat does not only involve shifting the brake lever over, it would require moving instruments around too. The left hand panel is larger than the right panel, it is also designed from a left pilot seat perspective. Production is slow enough already without making changes from one aircraft in the assembly line to the next. We are simply not in a position to do this at this time. All pilots should be equally proficient with flying with either hand, or both hands, and turning either direction. If a turning direction preference is noted, the pilot should immediately start thermalling more towards the "bad" side until that preference goes away. All pilots should be ambidextrous and ambithermopolis.

[kd6veb]

Hi Eric

If you only fly straight gliders you will 100% fly stick in right hand. For motor gliders one has an extra control - the throttle. Mostly the throttle is situated in the center of the instrument panel. So take off left hand stick and right hand throttle. Landing left hand spoilers and right hand stick. You get used to this arrangement very quickly and action becomes automatic. Occasionally when flying a thought occurs to me what hand am I using on the stick? Now after 12 years of motor gliders I find it might be either. So absolutely no problem.

As to your second question as to why the left seat is normally specified as the driver's seat. For some motor gliders the reason is obvious because of the placement of the dual controls (assuming there are dual controls) might be inconvenient. Then for low timers I think having them always fly from one seat might be safer. Regardless I don't think there is a restriction for the Phoenix. The controls are equally convenient for operation from either seat. I have not flown the Phoenix from the right seat.

Dave

[No longer active on TMGA]

I can and do fly with either hand; in fact, I'm left handed, though I fly mostly with the right because the left hand is busy moving the flap lever. My main concern was learning to use my right hand on the spoilers (during landing), as all gliders I've flown over my 38 years of soaring had the spoilers on the left side. I imagined my self trying to land, but applying the proper hand motions in to the wrong controls! Apparently, it's an easy transition, so I'm not concerned about it anymore.

I do agree visibility seems good turning in either direction, better than the Ximango and Taifun I have flown in. I think the lower canopy sill on the Phoenix makes a big difference. I'm no longer concerned about circling with other gliders in a thermal, though I haven't actually done it.