Charles Smith Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 I am an aspiring Phoenix owner but in reviewing the fuel requirements for the Rotax 912ULS, the manual specifies unleaded 91 octane mogas. My research says that it can be difficult to find mogas at airports, especially in certain regions of the U.S. How do Phoenix owners accommodate this? Thank you . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Registered Eric Greenwell Posted September 19, 2013 Registered Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I don't have experience with this, because my Phoenix isn't due until the end of the year, but can repeat I've read and what others have told me:Mogas is the preferred fuel, but 100LL is also acceptable, according to the Rotax manual. Using it will shorten the time between oil changes and other maintenance, however. With it's 700 NM range, many owners find they can do most their refueling at their home airport, using a few 5 gallon gas cans they take home with them, then fill on the way the next time they go to the airport; some get fuel from another pilot at their airport that has a large tank of mogas on a cart or pickup. Away from home, you will ocasionally find an FBO that is willing to get mogas from town and bring it to you at no more cost (sometimes less!) than 100LL. Contacting them ahead of time might be good idea; possibly, they'd have it waiting for you. since the Rotax is such common engine, a search of this forum or an LSA airplane forum should find more suggestions. Let us know what you learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Smith Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Thanks so much for the info, Eric . . . its an excellent start. I would prefer the 91 octane mogas (cost and no-lead), I was just a bit surprised that it wasn't widely available. I'll update if I find more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Registered Eric Greenwell Posted September 19, 2013 Registered Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Just in case you didn't find these:- a map of airports with mogas: http://www.flyunleaded.com/mapusairports.html- by-state lists of service stations selling unleaded: http://www.pure-gas.org/- trip planning using mogas: http://www.airnav.com/plan/fuel/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Smith Posted September 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Excellent! Thanks so much . . . I had seen the first site, but not the other two. My permanent home is in Massachusetts, one of the areas without any mogas availability at airports (other than a small airfield in Hampton NH). This fuel availability issue wouldn't dampen my interest in the Phoenix, just makes it a bit more complicated. Thanks again . . . Edited September 20, 2013 by Charles Smith Add more info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwalker Posted September 20, 2013 Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Charles -One other small addition. Be sure you are using 91 Octane or higher. The pure-gas and flyunleaded websites don't discriminate, and many of the stations they indicate have 80-90 octane only. I have a gas station half a mile from my house with inexpensive 90 octane that I cannot use. Fortunately, we have 92 on the field. It's a bit more pricey, but we want to support the owner. Also, look into the No-Spill gas cans. They are amazing. Not a drop spills! They have an overflow preventer as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Smith Posted September 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Thanks Ed. I had noted the 91 octane and higher. And thanks for the No-Spill gas can tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lee Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I'm lucky that there are 4 stations in Melbourne that sell no ethanol unleaded gas. When I travel I use 100LL. It is not a problem to switch back and forth between the fuels. It is important to avoid ethanol gas due to it's corrosive nature. Also, 100LL stores just fine over long periods. Mogas does not. Don't buy a large tank and then use gas out of it for half a year. Only use fresh gas. Phoenix Air is about to come out with a Service Bulletin that says avoid ethanol fuel in the Phoenix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Registered Eric Greenwell Posted October 12, 2013 Registered Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Do you know if Rotax is changing their fuel recommendations for the 912? The last Rotax manual I read allowed up to E10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfeldman Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 I am considering purchasing a Phoenix and currently fly the AMS Carat. My friend Dennis Yeomans recently sent his Phoenix wings back to the factory because he used mogas and the wings are wet. Apparaently some component of mogas interacts with the inside of the fuel tank causing material degradation. My understanding from talking to Jim Lee is that mogas is not recommended. You ought to check with him before you use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kd6veb Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Hi Charles I have almost 12 years of experience with the Rotax engine - 10 years with a Stemme S10-VT and 2 years with the Phoenix. In all those years I am not aware of any problems using 100LL fuel in my aircraft nor in anyone else's aircraft. 100LL has been around for such a long time that if there were problems surely they would be visible by now. Now MOGAS can have all kinds of additives and I would be very reluctant to use it in an aircraft of mine. AVGAS on the other hand has to meet strict quality standards otherwise think of the potential liabilities? Your Phoenix is going to run just great on 100LL. Guaranteed!Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Registered Eric Greenwell Posted October 14, 2013 Registered Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 My understanding from talking to Jim Lee is that mogas is not recommended. You ought to check with him before you use it.I talked to Dennis at length about this, and the problem is the ethanol in the mogas. Mogas without ethanol (aka "E0") is the preferred fuel for the Rotax 912, and the next best fuel is 100LL; unfortunately for Dennis, neither of those fuels is available in Hawaii, so he's been using mogas with ethanol. That is allowed by the factory and by Rotax, but something went wrong in Dennis' case, and affected the wing. That's been repaired at no expense to him, and he is very impressed with the way the factory and the dealer (Jim Lee) handled the situation.Dennis reports the factory is working hard to determine what happened, and ensure it doesn't happen again. So far, Dennis is the only one so affected. Personally, 90+ octane E0 is available locally, so I won't have any problem when flying in the Pacific NW. Traveling farther from home, I'll do like most of the other owners, and use 100LL. That's readily available at any airport with fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Smith Posted October 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hmmmm, so the Rotax manual specifies 91 octane or higher mogas, but the wet wings can't accommodate it? That does need to be clarified. Also, good to know about steering clear of ethanol. Could using mogas with ethanol have caused Dennis Yeoman's fuel tank degradation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Smith Posted October 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Again, thanks to everyone for the thorough responses to my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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