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Touring Motor Gliders Association (TMGA)
PatCampbell

Some basic questions for a newbie

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PatCampbell    10
PatCampbell

Hi there,

Have been looking into LSA for a few years and recently came across the idea of TMG's as an alternative. My local airport is primarily a glider airport, with glider instruction, so a TMG would make more sense on that front. Aside from that I like the idea of soaring rather than powered flight but like the option of powered flight for getting from A to B.

I do not quite understand how some of these motor gliders are certified. For example, Lambada, Pipistrel Sinus and others are classified as a "S-LSA". Are they NOT "type certified" as standard category aircraft? Does it matter, i.e. does it affect what type of license is needed to fly it (sport pilot versus glider with self launch endorsement?) Who can maintain this aircraft if it's designated as an S-LSA: an A&P, or a light sport repairman?

Finally, I wanted to know if there are any "more affordable" used 2-person touring motor gliders? Not saying 85k is affordable, but you can buy a new LSA for around $85k (for example the Pipistrel Alpha) or Tons and tons of other lightly used LSAs for the same price range, with still many modern LSAs in the 60k range if you look carefully and are not as picky about the latest technology or most popular brands. Are there any usecd TMG's in that 60-65k price range available? If so, where would you look?

Edited by PatCampbell

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PatCampbell    10
PatCampbell

Hi there,

Have been looking into LSA for a few years and recently came across the idea of TMG's as an alternative. My local airport is primarily a glider airport, with glider instruction, so a TMG would make more sense on that front. Aside from that I like the idea of soaring rather than powered flight but like the option of powered flight for getting from A to B.

I do not quite understand how some of these motor gliders are certified. For example, Lambada, Pipistrel Sinus and others are classified as a "S-LSA". Are they NOT "type certified" as standard category aircraft? Does it matter, i.e. does it affect what type of license is needed to fly it (sport pilot versus glider with self launch endorsement?) Who can maintain this aircraft if it's designated as an S-LSA: an A&P, or a light sport repairman?

Finally, I wanted to know if there are any "more affordable" used 2-person touring motor gliders? Not saying 85k is affordable, but you can buy a new LSA for around $85k (for example the Pipistrel Alpha) or Tons and tons of other lightly used LSAs for the same price range, with still many modern LSAs in the 60k range if you look carefully and are not as picky about the latest technology or most popular brands. Are there any usecd TMG's in that 60-65k price range available? If so, where would you look?

Edited by PatCampbell

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Steve Sliwa    13
Steve Sliwa

Hi Pat

I think we agree with your reason for opting toward a TMG.

We have owners of many types here and we all have our favorites, so it's not quite fair to say what is best? Type Certificated TMGs for example (Grob 109, Ximango, etc.) do create limitations for maintenance as you noted. Expense is probably higher and parts can be an issue, but then hopefully the extra effort is rewarded at resale (spoken as a Ximango owner :-) ). Looks like you understand the piloting certification issues.

I think the best way to learn more about requirements and issues is to contact each of the dealers. In addition to new models, they usually keep track of the used market and can guide you to what is a good value. BTW we list TMGs for sale in our classifieds section as well.

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Steve Sliwa    13
Steve Sliwa

Hi Pat

I think we agree with your reason for opting toward a TMG.

We have owners of many types here and we all have our favorites, so it's not quite fair to say what is best? Type Certificated TMGs for example (Grob 109, Ximango, etc.) do create limitations for maintenance as you noted. Expense is probably higher and parts can be an issue, but then hopefully the extra effort is rewarded at resale (spoken as a Ximango owner :-) ). Looks like you understand the piloting certification issues.

I think the best way to learn more about requirements and issues is to contact each of the dealers. In addition to new models, they usually keep track of the used market and can guide you to what is a good value. BTW we list TMGs for sale in our classifieds section as well.

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racaldwell    10
racaldwell

Pat,

I looked at a way to get into the sport of soaring.  Logistics, costs, etc. are a problem, especially not living near a gliderport.  I looked at partnerships but decided I could waste years waiting for the right situation to materialize.  I didn't want to go with a possibility.  I decided the Sonex Xenos motorglider kit at $20K was my answer.  I have a new Jabiru engine I bought for it for $12k.  I expect to sink another $8k into the panel & other internals.  So for $40k I will have a new two seat aerobatic motorglider with a glide ratio similar to the Blanik L23 I got my rating in.  The drawback of course is the time it takes to build.  I have a RV-6 to fly in the meantime so I can live with postponing my idea of soaring for the time being.  Being the builder solves most of the maintenance concerns since you can do the work yourself or have the judgement to know when something needs to be sent out to the pros.

Rick

IMG_1328.JPG

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Steve Sliwa    13
Steve Sliwa

Rick

I like your story and your handy work is coming along nicely.  I hope  you will consider starting an Album in the gallery section so we can track your progress and/or a Topic in the Xenos forum area.  We have a couple of home builders here and they might have some advice as well.   I tried to build an HP-18 sailplane but decided graduate school was more important.  I got fairly far and really loved the building  ... I just didn't get to the flying.

Good luck!

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